# His4Ever, JerseyDiamond and Joe\_Cool are hypocrites. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139 "2002-11-27T17:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/281 "2002-12-01T06:56:49Z")
I believe **Kirkland** got second and third chances; this was the lowest, vilest attack that I’d seen from him. Wishing someone to get abused and raped isn’t on par with a metaphysical class judgement – not at all. As **Shodan** once said: “You can’t claim the moral superiority with foam on your face.” ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/282 "2002-12-01T08:05:44Z")
Ohhh ACEOSPADE…I mean SWORDS… hello, kettle, this is pot— YOU’RE BLACK ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/283 "2002-12-01T12:50:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*And that would aid me, how? The “moral high ground” is on my side by default. \*\* Too bad it doesn’t work that way. No one is right by default. > [@](#): > > \*\*Given that she’s no better than a Nazi, or a Klansman, or a slave holder, \*\* And you are just as hateful and mean as she is. Maybe more so. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/284 "2002-12-01T18:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*…no one deserves to be beaten by their spouse, or anyone else – unless they do that sort of thing to others, as His does spiritually and verbally with her lies and attacks on good people – gays, Catholics, Mormons, and others. > > A person who hurts others deserves to be hurt themselves.\*\* Odd that he should say this. Because when I said something very similar (basically that he wasn’t beaten up for being gay, more likely that he was beaten up because of the way he treats people), I was accused of advocating gay-bashing. I guess that depends on a very liberal definition of gay-bashing that includes beating up somebody who happens to be gay, not beating them up FOR being gay. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/285 "2002-12-01T18:29:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t like to hammer at people who have revealed vulnerability, and I’d much rather err on the side of mercy than judgement. Sure, H4E royally pisses me off,but it seems to me that she has been the victim of bad teaching by a cult-like fundie church, which are exactly the sort of predatory brainwashers that exploit folks like H4E. It seems to me that, deepdown, H4E is a good person who is doing the best she can by her lights. What she needs is people to set her a good example of mercy and forgiveness, for that, as I understand it, is the crux of the Christian message. I just want to take the opportunity to thank **gobear** for this and several previous posts in the same vein. One thing this thread badly needed was a dose of Christian compassion and behavior of the sort that Christ practiced and teached – but given the topic, it seemed out of line for me to attempt to interject it towards the Pitted persons, even though they deserve it. It was not only a kindness on the part of a true gentleman but ironic in precisely the sense that a good First Century Jew would have seen the irony in the Parable of the Good Samaritan that it should be **gobear** who exemplifies Christlike behavior here. > [@](#): > > I didn’t leave Christianity. Christianity spit in my face and abandoned me. **Kirk** , I’m aware you’ve been banned, and I don’t expect a reply at all. But you should know that Christianity did no such thing – hateful people masquerading as Christian did, provoking your ire and a sense of paranoia (perhaps somewhat appropriate) that led you to see others who meant not harm but caring for you as your enemies, even when they were not. You are my friend; you will always be my friend until you directly tell me to stop doing so. And that goes for a lot more people than you think besides me as well. Like **Masonite** , who posted above. That’s all I need to say right now to you, except for the fact that I hope you find healing for the hurt they have caused and for the anger that is obviously eating a pit in your heart – and that if I can in any way help you to that healing, you have only to let me know how. You’re in my prayers, now and always. May you find His Peace and the compassion to forgive those who persecute you. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/286 "2002-12-01T18:29:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Odd that he should say this. Because when I said something very similar (basically that he wasn’t beaten up for being gay, more likely that he was beaten up because of the way he treats people), I was accused of advocating gay-bashing. > > I guess that depends on a very liberal definition of gay-bashing that includes beating up somebody who happens to be gay, not beating them up FOR being gay. :rolleyes: \*\* Just like using the term Christian for you is a very liberal definition that includes someone twisting beliefs to fit their needs, and not them actually BEING a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/287 "2002-12-02T14:45:33Z")
**Monty** -okay, lets have a cite where I was mean or incorrect!!! (I am kidding) It s been awhile, though, that one could find my posts to be such. This board has made me aware of many things I was wrong about, and sometimes our opinions (like mine) should be kept to themselves. I think youre a christian, Monty. And I hope i come across as one , myself, on here. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/288 "2002-12-02T14:50:28Z")
You know, **His4ever** , although I’m sure she’s too modest to have pointed this out to you herself, **vanilla** is an excellent example of a Christian who came in here with an attitude not unlike yours, but who was led to understand that that attitude wasn’t doing her any favors as far as the effectiveness of her witness (not to mention the hurt it caused to its targets) and changed accordingly while still being true to her faith. Lessons can be learned there… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/289 "2002-12-02T14:52:43Z")
**dreamer** , as well, is a good example of how to change your demeanor without damaging your faith. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/290 "2002-12-02T15:10:16Z")
jayjay’s right about change of attitude. Vanilla is someone whom I count as one of my online friends and we occasionally correspond. Although we disagree as the particulars of each other’s churches, I do recognize the strength of her faith. I think she recognizes mine also. No reason to beat each other upside the head with scriptures about it. H4E could do no better than emulating Rose. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/291 "2002-12-02T15:15:37Z")
aw, thanks you guys. Yes, when i came on to the sdmb, I saw my fundie beliefs expressed by a certain former poster (we all remember him). The board jumped all over him, as he didn’t know what he was talking about, though with good intentions. Being on here for almost 4 years, i have read and learned (I read every day-can’t do without it). Monty is a nice guy, I have found out. We disagree on the real-prophetness of Joseph Smith, but so? We can’t all agree on everything. His4Ever would do well to realize its okay to agree to disagree. I won’t be changing Monty’s mind, and he won’t mine, at least on religion. I still know he’s a believer. ANyway, now that this thread has turned all group-huglike…I’ll bow out of it on a good note. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/292 "2002-12-02T15:40:17Z")
**Joe\_Cool** > [@](#): > > And while you’re at it, perhaps you could explain where you get the authority to speak for us regarding the personal details of our lives, or even where you got this tidbit of incorrect information? Sorry, **J\_C** , this is something that I heard in person quite awhile ago, perhaps around the time when you and **JD** started seeing each other. It was my error to repeat something which I had never taken the time to verify. I don’t mean to speak with authority about your lives, and I am sorry for making things more difficult for you with respect to these issues. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/293 "2002-12-02T15:41:20Z")
Often times, threads are closed and a new one started with the same topic when they get to page six. Sometimes they are burned out and best left lie. Maybe that was hoped for with this one, but I think it should be continued, because it remains on topic and unanswered. > [@](#): > > _Joe-Cool_ > Odd that he should say this. Because when I said something very similar (basically that he wasn’t beaten up for being gay, more likely that he was beaten up because of the way he treats people), I was accused of advocating gay-bashing. **Kirkland** was banned for his stance and the appalling way he expressed it. Comparing your stance with his is apt, but doesn’t make you look good. Please look to the way you treat people, bearing in mind that you are not your God. **Kirkland** - supposing you are still reading, may I in a small way echo what **Polycarp** said? I’m not religious, but try to remember that many religious folk - even those who don’t know you - wish you well. On a personal note, remember that you don’t need anyone’s acceptance but your own (particularly when thinking how angry you “need” to get). And on a political note - something that you’ve failed on pretty fucking badly here - you need to find a way to express yourself in a way that keeps people thinking that you are a reasonable human being. It doesn’t matter how badly done by you are or how just your cause, if you fail to acknowledge your opponents’ humanity you will hurt your cause and undermine your claim to be taken seriously if you act in the way you did in this thread. I hope you wake up to this, for the sake of yourself (because you’re some way off being able to help anyone else, impotent fulmination aside). > [@](#): > > _vanilla_ > I think youre a christian, Monty. > And I hope i come across as one , myself, on here. In my atheist, pointyheaded opinion, **vanilla** , you have shown great intellectual, spiritual and moral growth over the time that I’ve seen your posts. [preview, I see that others have said sickeningly nice things about vanilla. Erk.] ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/294 "2002-12-02T17:08:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hawthorne \* > **Kirkland was banned for his stance and the appalling way he expressed it. Comparing your stance with his is apt, but doesn’t make you look good. Please look to the way you treat people, bearing in mind that you are not your God.** I really don’t think he was banned for his stance. His stance, whether I agree with it or not, is his own business, and as far as I’m concerned, he can hold to and endorse any stance he likes. His problem, in my perception, as I pointed out in the other thread, is the way he treats people - not the fact that he’s gay. If I saw somebody punch the guy, I’d assume it’s because he treated them the way I’ve seen him treat people here, not because of who’s in his bed. To all (I thought I’d specify, since in previous posts where I’ve ended the part directed to one person and continued on to more general thoughts, the board population has seemed to be unable to differentiate): The one point on which kirkland and I agree is this: You get treated according to the way you treat others. I get out of line with people sometimes, and I get it right back. If anybody hurts someone close to me (especially the vile treatment some people have given Jerseydiamond lately), I see red and respond, sometimes in an admittedly un-Christlike manner\*\*. As I said before, I used to have a great deal of respect for some of my most vocal and zealous opponents until quite recently, regardless of who they have sex with or what they do with their lives. It’s not my business to condemn anyone. However, when you stoop to personal attacks, against me, my relationships, and those close to me, don’t be surprised if I think you’re a jerk and blow my top. After all, that was the whole point of the insult, right? And when you ask the questions, be prepared for the answers that you know are coming. If you want to say “His4ever and Joe\_Cool: I say X is not a sin, and you guys are jerks!” then you don’t get to be annoyed when she or I come into the thread and respond with “The Bible says \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ about X.” If you don’t care what the Bible says, then don’t ask my opinion, KNOWING that’s the answer you’re gonna get (but we all know that when His4ever, JD, or I are “called out” into a thread, we’re being baited into a fight, simply _because_ you know the answers we’re going to give, and just want to fight…). That said, what’s the deal here? If I respond to a “bait” thread (like this one) in the manner any human being would - angrily - It makes me a jerk, but if I don’t, it makes me a coward? Issues. You people have issues. I’m actually kind of amused trying to think about what kind of person has such a pathetic life that they need to drag somebody through the mud on a message board, then get angry if that person doesn’t care what they say. Anyway, I’m done rambling for now. I’m not going to threaten to go away. In fact, I have no plans to go away at all (maybe that’s a threat in itself! ;)). I’m going to continue to be the same Joe\_Cool that you’ve all come to know and hate, so have fun and enjoy. \*\*I don’t care what you guys say about me. This is just a message board, not the center of my life, and I know where the exit is if I want it. And I can turn the other cheek pretty well, usually. **My own** other cheek. But I can’t (and won’t) turn somebody else’s cheek for them, and I will continue to defend people I care about, whether the confrontation is physical and in person, or ethereal words flying over the wire). ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/295 "2002-12-02T17:10:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*I really don’t think he was banned for his stance. His stance, whether I agree with it or not, is his own business, and as far as I’m concerned, he can hold to and endorse any stance he likes. > > His problem, in my perception, as I pointed out in the other thread, is the way he treats people - not the fact that he’s gay. If I saw somebody punch the guy, I’d assume it’s because he treated them the way I’ve seen him treat people here, not because of who’s in his bed.\*\* Slight omission: It’s not my business to read the admins’ minds, but if I had to venture a guess, I’d say that he was banned for his vicious personal attacks, and basically violating board rules, not for any opinion he held. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/296 "2002-12-02T17:59:37Z")
**Joe\_Cool** , while I have defended you in this thread, there’s one point I’d like to make. When I hear someone imply that a very good friend of mine who stood up for me against bullies cannot be considered a moral person because he’s gay and that he is less entitled to spend his life with the man he loves, that hurts me. You and **Jersey Diamond** are enjoying a privilege which life doesn’t give to everyone, in her case, for the second time, I understand. No one will call you immoral for it; indeed, people will congratulate you on it. My friend, no matter what he is or is not, isn’t that lucky. He’ll be called immoral because he chose to love, in some cases by some who choose to hate. That’s why I remain, Your loyal opposition, CJ ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/297 "2002-12-02T18:02:29Z")
So if there are divorces and remarriages involved here, has there been any admission to this sin of adultery on the part of the adulterers? I haven’t seen any, but I might have missed them in such a lengthy thread. Ever so curious. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/298 "2002-12-02T18:26:09Z")
As much as their sanctimony irritates me, **Joe\_Cool** and **Jersey\_Diamond** ’s private lives are not really open to public inspection; moreover, nobody besides those two have all the facts. If they are behaving hypocritically, then they will have to answer to God for it. (Well, not actually to God, since I’m convinced that there is none, but that’s just me.) Their pasts are their business, and nobody else’s. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/299 "2002-12-02T18:26:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Why, thank you. Let’s see what she says to my posting in the thread she started in MPSIMS. > > And with you. {You made me channel my Episcopalian upbringing!} \*\* Thanks. I need some, after having witnessed that train wreck. I never should have made that crack about **Kirkland** taking notes. In hindsight, it seems uncalled-for, given the meltdown that it seems to have precipitated. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/300 "2002-12-02T18:45:27Z")
What **cj** and **gobear** said (except for the “I don’t think there is any god” part of his:)) goes for me. I do wish you both a blessed wedding and a joy-filled marriage. Had it not been for the amount of rancor going on here, the question of how **Jersey** came to be, uh, eligible for remarriage, and how the two of you, as conservative Bible-oriented Christians, understand it to be appropriate in the light of Jesus’s statement on divorce, would have been interesting. (Oh, and I do grasp the idea that she might be a widow, as noted above.) Please do _not_ read that paragraph as asking in the expectation of getting an answer. After this thread we corporately don’t deserve an answer, and it’s personal information that it is totally yours to decide whether to share. But I’m expressing a regret at the missed opportunity, because it would have been worthwhile for me to learn how you, given your expressed stances, see the issue of interpretation of Scripture and the juxtaposing of its moral imperatives with the realities of everyday life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139.md?page=16)