# His4Ever, JerseyDiamond and Joe\_Cool are hypocrites. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139 "2002-11-27T17:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/321 "2002-12-03T11:37:46Z")
And you know, you’re attacking me when I’m trying to be helpful and argue on your behalf. This is the thanks. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/322 "2002-12-03T11:43:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Once I saw the way you like to spearhead these dogpiles on everyone who doesn’t work to advance your personal agenda, I decided you’re a jerk and since then hold very little respect for you Um, I didn’t start this thread–check the OP’s name, yet somehow you’re blaiming it on me. I’m trying to defend you’re too busy nursing grudges and namecaling to notice. Please tell me again in what way are you morally superior to me? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/323 "2002-12-03T11:47:24Z")
Er, that should be “blaming” and the seonc sentence should read, “I’m trying to defend you, but you’re too busy nursing grudges and namecalling to notice.” ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/324 "2002-12-03T14:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Hmm. I don’t recall ever having met you, and I certainly don’t recall either of us discussing our past relationships with you. You may have heard something in person, but definitely not from either of us. Honestly, **J\_C** , if you don’t remember having met me, I don’t think you are in much of a position to trust your memory either way. We have met at least twice. But I suppose that’s neither here nor there. > [@](#): > > In the future, I’ll thank you get to some clue of what you’re talking about before you go butting into our lives, slandering us, and starting irrelevant and factually incorrect pile-ons. Oh… or didn’t you think that would happen? I certainly didn’t interfere with your life in any way whatsoever. As for “slander,” well, I do not think that word means what you think it means. And as for starting an “irrelevant and factually incorrect” pile-on, I think a brief survey of the relevant threads reveals that this is manifestly untrue. Curiously, you accused **gobear** of precisely the same thing just a few posts ago. Something about “spearheading” the pile-on against you. So who is it, **J\_C**? So thanks for returning my apologies with this drivel. I’ll remember for the next time that trying to make up for my mistakes and doing good by people I don’t agree with is fucking worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/325 "2002-12-03T14:59:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Please tell me again in what way are you morally superior to me? \*\* Because he’s a Christian. Being a Christian also expalins why he acts lovingly and compassionately towards his fellow humans, as commanded by his Savior, Jesus Christ. [sub]I can’t believe I typed that without breaking out in fits of laughter[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/326 "2002-12-03T15:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*You’re the one who doesn’t get it. I’m sure you do like being gay. But you can’t blame the way people treat you on the fact that you are gay. People treat you based on the way you treat them. I dislike you because you act like a jerk and treat people abusively, not because you were gay. Before you started your campaign of personal attacks, as I’ve said probably a dozen times already, I liked you, **knowing that you are gay**. Once I saw the way you like to spearhead these dogpiles on everyone who doesn’t work to advance your personal agenda, I decided you’re a jerk and since then hold very little respect for you. > > Has nothing to do with your being gay. Do whoever you want to do. It has nothing to do with my opinion of you. I dislike you for who you are, not who you have sex with. \*\* You’re right. This has NOTHING to do with gobear, Esprix, matt\_mcl, myself, or any of the other posters being gay. Not. At. ALL. I dislike you because you use your religion to be a jerk. I’m pretty sure your diety has an even bigger **don’t be a jerk** rule than the mods here have. That you think gobear seems to spearhead dogpiles on you is paranoid, and I put the burden back on you to either provide cites that it is so, or retract it and apologize. It seems you, Jersey, and His4Ever spend more than enough time advancing your own personal agendas. All one has to do is reread through this thread to see how you respond to being held accountable for your words. Rather than actually dealing with the remarks at hand, you go into a _poor me_ mode and whine about being attacked when you brought it on yourself by your own poor choice of words and posts. Are you not accountable for what you say? You seem quick enough to demand accountability of others. After you have posted to threads about how you would beat a child with a belt, I doubt that you are the one to really guage what is and isn’t abusive. I’d set down that next stone you were planning on throwing; there are far too many holes in your glass house already. I dislike you for who you are, not the book and faith you use to justify hatred, prejudice, and violence. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/327 "2002-12-03T15:37:25Z")
**cjhoworth** : > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > **You and Jersey Diamond are enjoying a privilege which life doesn’t give to everyone, _in her case, for the second time, I understand_.** And once again, you are making judgments regarding things you know nothing about. That, my friend, is why we are opposed. **gobear** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **No, they don’t support marriage for us. No, they don’t regard us as human beings worthy of respect. Yes, they despise gay people.** That’s defending me? With friends like you, who needs enemas? Anyway, I have already acknowledged and thanked you for speaking up in defense of our privacy (though who would ever have thought there would be a need to speak up in defense of privacy on a public message board??) and called you gracious for doing so, in light of our serious disagreements. But the way you continue at the same time to spread lies and slander us, as in the quote above, it’s rather difficult to count you as an ally, even in so small a matter. > [@](#): > > **See, I call being willing to make an abject apology in return for your clearing up a misconception a compromise, but you think of it as “appeasement concessions.” Again, that says a great deal about you.** And I call your refusal to apologize after making a clearly false accusation (for which you DEMANDED an apology), except in return for clearing up a totally unrelated misconception, cowardly. If you recall, the apology I wanted was for your insistence that I said some thing or other (to the effect that all gays hate themselves, or some such B.S.) in a thread to which I never posted. To cover your own ass, you claimed that a single post from me was lost in a “board crash”. And even when faced with the fact that you are totally unable to substantiate your accusation against me, you refused to apologize and said “I retract the statement.” You don’t get to just retract an accusation. Your accusation is floating out there for all to see, in perpetuity (or as long as SDMB is online), and rather than admit you were wrong and apologize, you offer me a _deal_? Forget it. Your abject apology is owed because you are WRONG and you LIED about me publicly, and insulted me based on your incorrect memory of what I allegedly posted. I will not make any concession or sign off on any statement of beliefs in order to collect an apology that you owe to me. Your so-called deal was nothing more than an attempt to weasel out of admitting that **you were wrong and you levelled false accusations against me, which you are still unable to back up**. So thanks for backing up the idea that my personal life is the business of those to whom I choose to reveal it, and nobody else’s. But I’m sure you’ll agree that it doesn’t make us pals. **Maeglin** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > **As for “slander,” well, I do not think that word means what you think it means.** Well, according to my dictionary, it means to defame or malign. And calling me a hypocrite because you don’t think that JD and I are eligible to be married under our faith seems to fit pretty well. Actually, maybe you’re right. Slander is more properly a verbal defamation. Perhaps the appropriate term is libel. Thanks for correcting me. > [@](#): > > **And as for starting an “irrelevant and factually incorrect” pile-on, I think a brief survey of the relevant threads reveals that this is manifestly untrue. Curiously, you accused gobear of precisely the same thing just a few posts ago. Something about “spearheading” the pile-on against you.** In case you weren’t aware, there has been more than one thread attacking me and JD. This one was started by homebrew, but grew directly out of your comment regarding our alleged hypocrisy. The one in October was started by gobear. And no, I don’t suppose you interfered in my life, but you did cause me to be insulted and my marriage attacked, based on your statements. Since this isn’t real life, it’s not all that big a deal, but I’m still less than pleased about it. At any rate, I’d prefer your not making further statements about our personal lives to your apology. And finally, if we’ve met and I don’t remember, sorry. I remember clearly that you had been one of the NYC people that I wanted to meet, but never had the chance because you couldn’t make it to any of the gatherings that I’ve been to recently. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/328 "2002-12-03T15:43:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Er, that should be “blaming” and the [second] sentence should read, “I’m trying to defend you, but you’re too busy nursing grudges and namecalling to notice.” “We all speak a different language, talking in defense.” – Mike and the Mechanics I think there’s material here for a quite different thread based on what gay people are seeking and whether it fits with various views of Christian responsibility to support or oppose those aspirations. Unfortunately, both **CJ** and I have tried to start such threads, and they’ve sunk without trace. Is there any concurrence by the people here that it is quite possible to misinterpret the views of the opposition, and that perhaps people are drawing lines in the sand that don’t need to be drawn? Or do I have my rose-colored glasses on again? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/329 "2002-12-03T15:45:32Z")
> [@](#): > > And even when faced with the fact that you are totally unable to substantiate your accusation against me, you refused to apologize and said “I retract the statement.” Well, you’re absolutely right. I both retract the statement and apologize abjectly, thoroughly, and unreservedly. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/330 "2002-12-03T15:45:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\*That’s defending me? With friends like you, who needs enemas? > \*\* Well, you are full of shit, so I am sure the enema is just a courtesy! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/331 "2002-12-03T15:45:49Z")
Maeglin, I guess I am responding like a jerk when you clearly were trying to make right the misunderstanding. So please accept my apology for that. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/332 "2002-12-03T15:48:03Z")
Uh, please take note of the fact that the posts just now listed as Jerseydiamond were, in fact, made by me, and please direct all responses to me and not to her. Sorry. [sub]grumble grumble[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/333 "2002-12-03T15:48:40Z")
**JD** Thanks for your mild tone. I say this without sarcasm, and I really do appreciate it. > [@](#): > > And calling me a hypocrite because you don’t think that JD and I are eligible to be married under our faith seems to fit pretty well. Actually, maybe you’re right. Slander is more properly a verbal defamation. Perhaps the appropriate term is libel. Thanks for correcting me. That’s not precisely what I meant, but I take your point. I don’t mean to correct you with respect to slander versus libel. I posted what I did with respect to a “prior marriage” absent of malice and because I honestly believed it was true. Evidently it’s not, for which I apologized and still regret. > [@](#): > > At any rate, I’d prefer your not making further statements about our personal lives to your apology. Fair enough. As you may or may not have noticed, I have kept out of it and intend to continue to do so. > [@](#): > > And finally, if we’ve met and I don’t remember, sorry. Trust me, it happens all the time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/334 "2002-12-03T15:50:53Z")
What a bunch of simulposts. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/335 "2002-12-03T15:55:22Z")
Just for the record, Maeglin, I’d like to post my apology to you for my rude response under my own username. I reacted improperly, and apologize for the rude way I answered your apology. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/336 "2002-12-03T15:57:53Z")
**Joe Cool** , thank you. Thank you for ignoring my defending you at the beginning of this thread. Thank you for attacking a mild objection made as gently as possible. Thank you for your belief that a very dear friend of mine who took abuse for defending me is an irredemably sinful state. Thank you for believing that he is sinful for enjoying a privilege that you enjoy or intend to enjoy. Thank you for reminding me that far too many people I care for are condemned to ever lasting torment in your view because they are homosexual, atheistic, agnostic or, God forbid, Wiccan. Three things are scaring me. One, that your view of God might be right. Two, that your view of God is starting to work it’s way into my view. Three, that you and especially **His4Ever** think that’s a good thing. Remind me _never_ to speak in your defense again. CJ ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/337 "2002-12-03T16:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there any concurrence by the people here that it is quite possible to misinterpret the views of the opposition, and that perhaps people are drawing lines in the sand that don’t need to be drawn? Or do I have my rose-colored glasses on again? It’s Advent, and it seems wrong to me to continue old quarrels and pursue petty squabbles during this season. (Yes, I know, rabid atheists shouldn’t concern themselves with Advent. So I’m inconsistent; sue me.) If **Joe\_Cool** and **JerseyDiamond** continue to dislike me, that’s out of my hands. For my part, I apologize (again) for any and all posts I have written that suggested or stated that they don’t love gay people or that have offended **Joe\_Cool** and **JerseyDiamond** in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/338 "2002-12-03T16:15:08Z")
By the way, the friend I mentioned was attacked and insulted not because he was gay, but because he had the temerity to be my friend. CJ ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/339 "2002-12-03T16:40:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Three things are scaring me. One, that your view of God might be right. Two, that your view of God is starting to work it’s way into my view. Three, that you and especially His4Ever think that’s a good thing. > > Remind me never to speak in your defense again. Don’t let your faith be affected by other people. If you believe that God is love, then hold on to that. While I don’t share your faith, I am still glad that it gives you hope and comfort, especially now, in a very cheerless time for you. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139/340 "2002-12-03T16:44:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > \*\ ***Joe Cool** , thank you. > > \ > > Remind me _never_ to speak in your defense again. > > CJ \*\* Sad. Christians turning on each other. Is this what we need? Seriously, all jokes aside…this must make the Lord weep. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-jerseydiamond-and-joe_cool-are-hypocrites/139139.md?page=18)