# His4Ever, why are you telling lies about your Deity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922 "2002-10-05T02:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/201 "2002-10-10T15:10:26Z")
I agree that **H4E** ’s post should (like so many statements by so many people) have probably stopped short just before the ‘But’… But… C’mon **Lib** ; we’re making progress here, aren’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/202 "2002-10-10T15:51:33Z")
Are we? If I pull a man from his kitchen to his living room when his house is on fire, but run out his front door by myself, how much progress did I make? “If you stick a knife nine inches into my back and pull it out three inches, that is not progress.” — El Hajj Malik El Shabazz I feel called by the Lord to speak to His4ever. Will you kindly forgive me, and allow me to press on? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/203 "2002-10-10T16:06:44Z")
In fact, as I think of it, Mange, did you get a chance to read what I said to her? Did you find in there any condemnation? Any heavy burden for her to bear? Anything other than the loving advice from one Christian to another? If you found me berating her, then stand where you are. But if you found me encouraging her and asking nothing more from her than loving kindness and compassion, then you need either to stand with me, or else move out of the way. God go with you, Mange. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/204 "2002-10-10T16:16:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > there’s a difference between someone who is a Christian and struggles and fails now and again than a person who constantly deliberately over and over continiues committing and living a life he or she **knows is sinful** and yet it doesn’t seem to bother them in the least. Bolding mine. As for “Knowing that it is sinful.” Huh uh. You don’t KNOW that. You BELIEVE it. They don’t. There’s a HUGE difference between KNOW and BELIEVE. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/205 "2002-10-10T16:55:45Z")
I too think that I was too rough on **His4Ever** , and, dear sister, I ask your forgiveness for that. Over in GD I’ve outlined my reasons – which are not personal, but rather directed at the common idea of Bibliocentric evangelical Christians that quoting Scripture, particularly condemnatory injunctions in particular verses, is going to somehow work a conversion in the heart of a given person to whom they direct that quote. To me, this seems to have the effect of driving the people to whom the quotes are directed **away** from Christ, and therefore to fly in the face of what you and I are, in our disparate ways, trying to achieve – to guide people to Christ, that they may know and rejoice in His love, and find richer and fuller lives in Him. So… I had good motives, but poor execution. So, I feel, did you. Peace? ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/206 "2002-10-10T17:19:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*see, the Straight Dope is addictive, isn’t it? > 😉 > > IMHO, baptism isn’t necessary for salvation. > But me and my son were dunked (and the people in church had the authority to do so). > Its just an outward statement to the world that you have been changed. > > His4Ever, do they give out Chick tracts in your church lobby? > They did in my old Foursquare church. > Also- a question: Is being homosexual a sin? And if so, how could one possibly be saved of it? \*\* No, they don’t hand out Chick tracts at my church. As to your question on homosexuality I hesitate to get into this again. I’ll do my best. I tend to think that it’s not the feelings that are sinful but performing the acts. However, there’s another thing to think about. At one point do these feelings become lust which is a sin? Just as it say if a man looks on a woman to lust after her, he’s committed adultery in his heart. I really don’t know how a person would get rid of homosexual feelings, I’m sure it’s a struggle. I’m sure satan loves to get people in this position. I just really am not sure how to answer that. I have to go. Am at work. Just can’t seem to get enough time to come here and read and answer things like I’d like to. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/207 "2002-10-10T17:42:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I tend to think that it’s not the feelings that are sinful but performing the acts. However, there’s another thing to think about. That’s a step in the right direction. The “feelings OK/acts sinful” is what the Catholic Church teaches, along with other denominations, and is a big improvement on your earlier postions. Well done. > [@](#): > > I’m sure Satan loves to get people in this position. Well, I’m a top, so Satan won’t be getting me in any position. (Although the right hairychested musclebear might get me to flip…) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/208 "2002-10-10T17:46:58Z")
Hmmm… I’m a married man (27 1/2 years now) – if my wife and I make love, that’s not “lust” in the religious definition of lust as a sin, but the fair and proper use of our sex drives, to celebrate our union before God in a physical manner. I presume you and your husband feel much the same way. It’s my contention that the scriptural passages on homosexuality are to be read in the same way as the ones on heterosexuality – _don’t lust_ – don’t use somebody as a sex object, that is – but show love. The problem being (and this gets into arguments on the meaning of “inspiration”) that the human authors had no concept that two men or two women could fall in love and covenant a relationship before God, and celebrate their love physically as do married couples. It’s important to realize that just as pride is the sinful misuse of self-confidence, sloth the sinful misuse of the human need and right to rest (commanded by God), and so on, lust is the sinful misuse of sexual desire – a **good** gift of God, for the procreation of children and the physical underpinning of love between the partners in a marriage (or, of course, contemplating one – an engaged couple who do not desire sex with each other have definite problems, and I mean no sarcasm – their _spirituality_ is stunted by a sense of scruples that anything bodily is bad). More later. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/209 "2002-10-10T19:16:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*I too think that I was too rough on **His4Ever** , and, dear sister, I ask your forgiveness for that. \*\* Oh lovely. This spiritual whore makes this board filthy – attacks gays, spreads lies about the beliefs of Catholics and Mormons – refuses to admit that her vulgar posts are the bullshit that people with actual KNOWLEDGE of Catholicism and Mormonism have INDISPUTABLY SHOWN THEM TO BE – and **Polycarp** is apologizing. This Satan worshipping sack of shit deserves no apologies from ANYONE until she crawls on broken glass, covers her face in ashes and rips her clothing, wailing for forgiveness for the lies she has spread about Catholicism, Mormonism and gays, and anyone who treats her as anything more than a leper is only helping her to further her agenda of bigotry and lies. His4Ever spreads lies about Catholicism. She misrepresents, even after being told the truth, Mormonism. She is an anti-gay troll and controversey baiter. She deserves more scorn, more condemnation, not understanding. To do anything less than rebuke her in every post that you exchange with her is to help her agenda, which is built on a string of lies and evil to its very core. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/210 "2002-10-10T19:22:06Z")
Kirk…I understand exactly how you feel. But “return good for evil, be kind to them that persecute you, for in doing so you will heap coals of fire upon their heads,” remember? I think you’ve been hurt in an unconscionable manner by exactly the sort of attitudes that have been espoused by religious fundamentalists – but you’re not doing an especially good witness to the God of love who, as we both believe, doesn’t care about whether you’re gay or straight, but about what you do with your life. And to answer an earlier comment, yes, along with **tomndebb** , you’re probably the best human resource I know on Catholic belief. ---
**Author:** ![cthulhuCultist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cthulhuCultist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cthulhuCultist)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/211 "2002-10-10T19:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\* > This Satan worshipping sack of shit…_\* Please, don’t insult Satanists by comparing them to His4Ever. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/212 "2002-10-10T19:31:04Z")
**Kirkland** , I thought you promised to behave yourself. Calling **H4E** a “spiritual whore” is WAY out of line. It’s apparent that she’s not terribly bright, and I agree that she is allied with some truly hateful people, but it’s just plain wrong and hateful of you to vilify her so unmercifully. **H4E** is making baby steps, and, with the right kind of encouragement, she might learn that gay people aren’t monsters. In any event, you’re turning into an One-Note Annie yourself, with the constant jets of vileness and obscenity. To moderate your speech you must learn, young Jedi, if to be taken seriously you wish. While it is imperative that we defend ourselves, we also need to engage the larger support of the TM’s, which is made markedly more difficult when you shriek like a Boston fishwife in every… single…post! ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/213 "2002-10-10T19:45:37Z")
**Kirkland** , I’m with you, man. I have to say this little H4E love-fest is making me ill. I wish she’d stayed gone. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/214 "2002-10-10T20:17:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\ ***Kirkland** , I thought you promised to behave yourself. \*\* I do not believe that anything I said was out of bounds for the BBQ Pit. This isn’t the GD. If anything was out of bounds, any moderator who sees this, please remove the out-of-bounds parts. > [@](#): > > \*\*Calling **H4E** a “spiritual whore” is WAY out of line. \*\* How is it any different than the meaning behind the things she says about gays and Catholics and Mormons? Oh, that’s right. She hides her meaning behind insipid quotes from a stupid book. Oh, and what I said is true, while everything she’s ever said has been a lie. > [@](#): > > **H4E** is making baby steps, and, with the right kind of encouragement, she might learn that gay people aren’t monsters. No, she won’t. She’s not capable of making such a leap. She’s not capable of growth. She is **your enemy.** > [@](#): > > In any event, you’re turning into an One-Note Annie yourself, with the constant jets of vileness and obscenity. At least I’m right. All that matters in this world is being right. > [@](#): > > To moderate your speech you must learn, young Jedi, if to be taken seriously you wish. Taken seriously by whom? The step-and-fetch uncle toms and evil-abbetters who are coddling up to the spawn of Satan in this thread? Playing nice with a lying, poisonous snake is wrong. Flat out wrong. **His4Ever** is a danger to every thinking, decent person in the world. She spreads lies, discourse, bigotry and a religion that amounts to little more than intellectual suicide. To apologize to her, as people on this thread have, for treating her the way she deserves to be treated only helps further her cause. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/215 "2002-10-10T20:22:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > **Kirk…I understand exactly how you feel. But “return good for evil, be kind to them that persecute you, for in doing so you will heap coals of fire upon their heads,” remember?** Yeah, because that worked so well for Jesus. **H4E** is evil. Utterly, totally evil. Every word she says is a lie, every thought she has is a sin. She is evil incarnate. To refer to two people you’ll know, but others here won’t: She is worse than Shema. She is worse than Sierra2. She is worse that if you were to take the entire Triple S and multiply them by themselves. She is a villain of the first order. By being nice to her, you encourage her. She has shown no intellect, no ability to grow. Yet you coddle her. To coddle her is to **attack me** and **everyone else** she has **blatantly lied about** since the first moment she began polluting this Board. > [@](#): > > I think you’ve been hurt in an unconscionable manner by exactly the sort of attitudes that have been espoused by religious fundamentalists – but you’re not doing an especially good witness to the God of love who, as we both believe, doesn’t care about whether you’re gay or straight, but about what you do with your life. If God exists, he can defend himself against evil people like **H4E** who spread lies about who he is. Since he doesn’t do the latter, I’m no longer so sure about the former. I no longer describe myself as Christian, because someone might here that and associate me with “people” like H4E. The religious fundamentalists have done a great job at driving whatever faith or interest I have in the divine right out of me. > [@](#): > > And to answer an earlier comment, yes, along with **tomndebb** , you’re probably the best human resource I know on Catholic belief. You’re probably doing a disservice to Wolsely (though he’s gone off the ledge in recent months, become a right wing whacko) by saying that, but thanks, anyway. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/216 "2002-10-10T20:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Taken seriously by whom? The step-and-fetch uncle toms and evil-abbetters who are coddling up to the spawn of Satan in this thread? If you equate observing the limits of civilized discourse and discerning how to use language to its fullest impact “step-and-fetch uncle tommming”, you have much to learn, young Jedi. I have no problem being vile in the Pit, as you shall see shortly when I pit the bejesus out of **Joe\_Cool**. But when you reply to every comment wioth the same intense level of obscenity, it just gets …old. Learn to moderate your tone, and the times you do lash out you’ll get more attention. As it is, you are being tuned out by many people, I’ll warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/217 "2002-10-10T20:26:44Z")
Kirkland wrote: > [@](#): > > H4E is evil. Utterly, totally evil. Every word she says is a lie, every thought she has is a sin. She is evil incarnate. You sound exactly like her, only meaner. ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/218 "2002-10-10T20:28:51Z")
Let people tune me out. I don’t care. I’m right, which is all that matters. If they don’t hear the truth because they’re too busy trying to pat the snake on the head and encourage H4E’s agenda of spreading anti-gay, anti-Catholic, anti-Mormon lies, then they’ll deserve it when she bites them, too. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Kirkland1244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kirkland1244](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirkland1244)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/219 "2002-10-10T20:31:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*You sound exactly like her, only meaner. \*\* Except I’m not lying. I’m not lying about Catholics. I’m not the one lying about Mormons. I’m not the one lying about gays. She is. She’s the liar, and the lying is what makes her evil. Tone is immaterial, content is all that matters, and all she has ever offered in terms of content is lies and true hate, the kind of hate that kills. Just because she’s being polite while she spreads viscious lies about Catholics, Mormons and gays doesn’t offset what she’s saying. All of which is evil, all of which is untrue. Kirk ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/220 "2002-10-10T20:43:46Z")
So she lies. You do, too. So do I. I’ve never known anyone who didn’t. In your anger, you cannot see the irony that is obvious to everyone else. You have perceived that she condemns you, and your response is, well, to condemn her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=12)