# His4Ever, why are you telling lies about your Deity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922 "2002-10-05T02:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/301 "2002-12-18T01:15:44Z")
So far, His4ever, any discussion where it’s even remotely possible that you could actually learn something about yourself, someone else, or even the Bible is completely fruitless because possibility does not equal reality. A prime example is your hanging onto the idea that John 3:18 says it was a Samaritan woman taken in adultery. There’s no mention of her nationality; however, given that the Jews did not consider Samaritans to be Jewish, there’s exactly zero reason to even entertain the idea that the woman taken was Samaritan. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/302 "2002-12-18T01:21:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: **go and sin no more.** John 8:11 > > Yes, He did tell her to go and sin no more. It’s right there in John 8:11 so how can you say it isn’t? \*\* 'Cause the woman at the well was in John 4. Nowhere near John 8. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/303 "2002-12-18T01:26:25Z")
BHAHAHAHAHA… **amarinth** -good one! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/304 "2002-12-18T01:26:41Z")
I don’t know why I said “3:18.” I certainly meant ot post “8:11.” ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/305 "2002-12-18T01:39:22Z")
**His4Ever** , the story of the woman at the well is told in John 4:8-42. She is completely different from the woman the Pharisees brought in who was caught committing adultery. The position which this story is given in the gospels vary. Here’s the exact commentary from my copy of _The New English Bible_ (emphasis mine): > [@](#): > > This passage which in the most widely received editions of the New Testament is printed in the text of John 7:53-8:11, has no fixed place in our witnesses. Some of them **do not contain it at all**. Some place it after Luke 21:38, others after John 7:30 or 7:52 or 21:24. In other words, not only is the woman caught in adultery completely different from the woman at the well, her story does not appear in all versions of the Gospels. You frequently cite scriptural authority for your beliefs. If you choose to continue to do so, please make sure that authority is accurate and stop combining two very seperate women into one story. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/306 "2002-12-18T02:26:13Z")
I just went out to [Bible Gateway](http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible) and ran a search for John 7:53-8:11 on all versions of the Bible they have listed. Several translations of the Bible listed agree with my _New English Bible_. Here are notes from two more versions: From _The New Internation Version_ > [@](#): > > ((The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53-8:11.)) From _The New American Standard Version_ > [@](#): > > Later mss add the story of the adulterous woman, numbering it as John 7:53-8:11 ---
**Author:** ![Sdrawkcab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sdrawkcab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdrawkcab)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/307 "2002-12-18T02:34:00Z")
The note to the Catholic _New American Bible_ regarding John 7:53 to \*:11 states: “The story of the woman caught in adultery is a later insertion here, missing from all early Greek manuscripts. A Western text-type insertion, attested mainly in Old Latin translations, it is found in different places in different manuscripts… There are many non-Johannine features in teh language, and there are also many doubtful readings within the passage. The style and motifs are similar to those of Luke, and it fits better with the general situation at the end of Luke 21, but it was probabbly inserted her because of the allusion to Jeremiah 17:13 and the statement “I do not judge anyone,” in 8:15. The Catholic Church accepts this passage as canonical scripture.” ---
**Author:** ![Sdrawkcab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sdrawkcab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdrawkcab)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/308 "2002-12-18T02:35:15Z")
Please note that the typos in the above quote stem from my clumsy use of this small iBook keyboard, and do not reflect the spelling ability of the Roman Catholic Church. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/309 "2002-12-18T02:47:59Z")
I got interupted by a neighbor in need earlier (her phone’s been out for 3 days; mine was out for 2). I want to make it clear that I do consider the woman caught in adultery to be a valid part of the Gospel, but it does appear to be the least reliable. This all came out of my citing the specific chapter and verses to distinguish between the woman at the well and the woman caught in adultery. **Sdrawkcab** , you mean infallibility _doesn’t_ extned to spelling? 🙂 CJ ---
**Author:** ![Sdrawkcab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sdrawkcab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdrawkcab)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/310 "2002-12-18T03:53:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > **Sdrawkcab** , you mean infallibility _doesn’t_ extned to spelling? 🙂 Well, mine certainly doesn’t. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/311 "2002-12-18T04:50:22Z")
BTW, H4E: Do you recall who posted this in this thread? > [@](#): > > If you don’t like what the Bible says, fine, that’s your business. I refuse to give out a one sided or lopsided view of God’s character. Since you guys are all on one side concentrating on the part that pleases you, there’s a need for someone to come in and share the other part. Okay, you don’t like that, it’s your business. Didn’t someone call you out for your own complete disregard for something the Bible says? Looks to me like your actions do give out a one-sided/lopsided view of God’s character. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/312 "2002-12-18T05:01:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I’m here…just reading. Seriously thinking that I ought to leave you folks alone and move on.☹ \*\* Please do. I have a natural distrust of Christians in general (sorry, can’t help it. I hear “Christian” and alarm bells go off instinctively) and you just reinforce that. I honestly don’t know how you think that you are doing any “good” here. You are driving people away from your beliefs by showing how ugly and hateful they are. Nobody is going to say “Hey, I have never heard of this Jesus guy… but that hell sure sounds scary so I’m in!” ok? Ain’t gonna happen. What IS going to happen, and what has happened already, is that those who already believe will shake their heads, and those who don’t will say “see? This is why I will never believe” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/313 "2002-12-18T11:26:34Z")
His4ever wrote: > [@](#): > > I don’t believe that the prostitutes remained prostitutes after coming to Jesus. Then why do you remain a Pharisee? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/314 "2002-12-18T14:42:31Z")
I’m not sure what you mean by she’s a Pharisee, could you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/315 "2002-12-18T14:50:37Z")
I think what **Libertarian** means is someone who follows the letter of the law, convinced of his own self-righteousness, like the Pharisees did in Christ’s days, as opposed to one who follows the spirit of the law. I regret to say that it’s an assessment I agree with. CJ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/316 "2002-12-18T14:59:01Z")
Do you think she knows she’s coming across like that? I think (I could be wrong) her point here is to convert someone, poster or lurker. Everyone seems to be saying she’s failing that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/317 "2002-12-18T15:32:43Z")
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. — Jesus (Matthew 23:15) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/318 "2002-12-18T15:35:57Z")
Well, this is typical. **H4E** makes an absolutist assertion about the bible, is demonstrated clearly to be in error about the assertion, and then she disappears completely. I expect she will appear elsewhere later, and never address the matter of her biblical errancy. This sort of behavior makes efforts to enlighten her about the facts to be completely fruitless, and IMHO a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/319 "2002-12-18T16:20:32Z")
The deal, though, is that H4E isn’t following the letter of the law she tells everyone else they must follow. Many posters have pointed that out already and there’s even a rather interesting pit thread about it. And Opal’s description fits aptly. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/320 "2002-12-18T16:25:37Z")
I trust you’ve missed the point. The Samaritan woman’s encounter with Jesus is told in the fourth chapter of the Gospel According to John: > [@](#): > > 5 So [Jesus] came to a Samaritan city called Sychar, near the plot of ground that Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired out by his journey, was sitting by the well. It was about noon. 7 A Samaritan woman came to draw water, and Jesus said to her, “Give me a drink.” 8 (His disciples had gone to the city to buy food.) 9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “How is it that you, a Jew, ask a drink of me, a woman of Samaria?” (Jews do not share things in common with Samaritans.) 10 Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, “Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” 11 The woman said to him, “Sir, you have no bucket, and the well is deep. Where do you get that living water? 12 Are you greater than our ancestor Jacob, who gave us the well, and with his sons and his flocks drank from it?” 13 Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, 14 but those who drink of the water that I will give them will never be thirsty. The water that I will give will become in them a spring of water gushing up to eternal life.” 15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water, so that I may never be thirsty or have to keep coming here to draw water.” 16 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come back.” 17 The woman answered him, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, "You are right in saying, “I have no husband’; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true!” 19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.” 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who is speaking to you.” > > 27 Just then his disciples came. They were astonished that he was speaking with a woman, but no one said, “What do you want?” or, “Why are you speaking with her?” 28 Then the woman left her water jar and went back to the city. She said to the people, 29 “Come and see a man who told me everything I have ever done! He cannot be the Messiah, can he?” 30 They left the city and were on their way to him. The woman whom **His4Ever** apparently conflated with her was in Jerusalem, and her account happens two chapters later, in the eighth chapter: > [@](#): > > 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus straightened up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, sir.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.” I think it is an apposite quote to be brought to **His4Ever** ’s attention, because of what Jesus knows about her: > [@](#): > > 16 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come back.” 17 The woman answered him, “I have no husband.” Jesus said to her, "You are right in saying, “I have no husband’; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true!” And yet…Jesus does not condemn her for her “serial polygamy” – the nice-nasty phrase moralists break out to judge those who divorce and remarry, but rather reveals Himself as Messiah to her, something he had been loath to do to anyone up until this point according to the Gospel accounts. It also has to be kept in mind that Jesus in associating with Samaritans generally and a Samaritan woman in particular is violating the Jewish moral code – these folks are heretics and “not part of us” – cultural outcasts living in a small area beween the Jewish territories of Judea and Galilee. No rabbi worth his salt would have deigned to speak to a people who rejected the books of the prophets and operated from an erroneous rescension of the Torah as the Samaritans did. It was unthinkable! And, of course, the sole comment that those who practice moralistic judgmentalism pick up from the story of the woman taken in adultery, who is _not_ the Samaritan woman, is Jesus’s comment, “Go, and sin no more.” Cannot anyone perceive the **mercy** implicit in Jesus’s dialogue with these two women? They were judged by the “righteous” Jews of the time as unworthy of the promises of God – but God Incarnate knew them as they were, loved them, and judged otherwise. And I’m very confident, though saddened, that the point behind this little Biblical exegesis will whoosh completely by those to whom it is directed. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=17)