# His4Ever, why are you telling lies about your Deity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922 "2002-10-05T02:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/361 "2002-12-20T11:23:33Z")
**Vanilla** , a few weeks ago in a private e-mail exchange with **His4Ever** she explained her views on what happens when a homosexual becomes a Christian. They were outrageous and nonsensical enough that I could not respond. **His4Ever** , do you realize that by refusing to address your mistake on page 6, you’ve just lost a large amount of credibility when it comes to _any_ assertions you make about what the Bible says? Coupled with your habit of not responding when someone else cites other verses from the Bible in response to something you’ve said it says, you’re not coming off as particularly credible. How can I say this without sounding condescending? I realize that critical thinking doesn’t come easily to everyone. I’m also very aware that this Board can make great intellectual demands on people, especially in Great Debates. That’s fair enough – the purpose of this Board is fighting ignorance. When you said Christ told the woman at the well to go and sin no more on page 6, when you asked if there wasn’t some alternative history in which modern day Protestantism didn’t grow out of Catholicism, when you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge that Mormons and Catholics are wrong, you demonstrate your own ignorance and, what’s worse on this Board, you refuse to do anything about it. In my book, condemning people to Hell without taking the trouble to find out who and what they are is a form of bigotry. I know you say you don’t do it; the Bible does, but you’ve just demonstrated your ignorance of what the Bible says. Despite what you believe about what your Way is, it comes across only as hatred, condemnation, and blindness. Here are a couple more passages for you: > [@](#): > > **Matthew 15:12-14** > Then the disciples came to Jesus and said, ‘Do you know that the Pharisees have taken great offence at what you have been saying??’ His answer was: ‘Any plant that is not of my heavenly Father’s planting will be rooted up. Leave them alone; they are blind guides, and if one blind man guide another, they will both fall into the ditch.’ This took place immediately after Christ chastized the Pharisees in Matthew 15:6 by saying, “You have made God’s law null and void out of respect for your tradition. What hypocrisy!” > [@](#): > > **Matthew 23:13-14** > [Christ is speaking] > 'Alas, alas for you, lawyers and Pharisees, hypocrites that you are! You shut the door of the kingdom of Heaven in men’s faces; you do not enter yourselves, and when others are entering, you stop them. \*\*Libertarian’s already cited the next few verses. You do the same when you say Catholics and Mormons are not Christians. I’ll also point out that right before this is a passage which a friend of mine who used to be a Fundamentalist says some Protestants used to justify their rejection of Catholic hierarchy, Matthew 23:9, “Do not call any man on earth, ‘father’ for you have one Father and he is in Heaven.” By the way, **His4Ever** , do you realize that the verse you used for your last signature is one of the ones Catholics use to justify their belief in transsubstantiation? CJ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/362 "2002-12-20T14:38:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I’ve sent you a private e mail, **Vanilla**. \*\* Well, thanks, but some posters on _here_ want some answers so you may want to e mail them, too. I don’t know if you do realize you are only turning people Off to the gospel by your postings here. Are you aware of this? Come on back here, and talk to these people!(they won’t bite). But the may disagree; thats okay too. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/363 "2002-12-20T14:38:43Z")
Word to the wise, let’s be careful discussing private email threads. **Lynn** has made it clear this is _verboten_. And more on topic, I very much doubt **His** will ever satisfactorily answer the questions posed to her. Her form of Christianity (and IMHO most fundamentalist types of same) is incoherent and illogical, not to mention incompatible with the real world. So I dont expect rational answers from an irrational belief system. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/364 "2002-12-20T15:07:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > **His4Ever** , do you realize that by refusing to address your mistake on page 6, you’ve just lost a large amount of credibility when it comes to _any_ assertions you make about what the Bible says? Lost? _lost?_ L-O-S-T ? 😃 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You’re such a kidder, **cj**. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/365 "2002-12-20T15:45:19Z")
**Homebrew** , I’m a Christian. I’m supposed to be merciful. That, combined with a tendency towards understatement . . . CJ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/366 "2002-12-20T15:47:38Z")
i think I’ll just go brew something at home…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/367 "2002-12-20T16:11:49Z")
Like tea? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/368 "2002-12-20T16:14:24Z")
I cannot brew anything else…🙂 I do not think she is going to answer Any more questions. I think IMHO, we are just not accepting her truth, and God help us then!☹ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/369 "2002-12-20T16:38:48Z")
cj: I trust that was a typo above where you said > [@](#): > > when you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge that Mormons and Catholics are wrong, As an LDS myself, I appreciate your repetition shortly thereafter in which you indicated what you really meant to say there (I think). As I’ve told a number of people, we LDS may not be their particular flavour of Christianity, but we’re still Christians. > [@](#): > > That, combined with a tendency towards understatement . . . Cool! Now you’re channelling British crossword puzzles. If H4E can’t figure out something straightford, there’s no way she’ll figure that out! ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/370 "2002-12-20T20:14:53Z")
It was a typo, **Monty**. Sorry about that – I was trying to put things at least somewhat delicately. As for the second comment, that was directed more at **Homebrew**. Wait a minute! I just got the joke! CJ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/371 "2002-12-20T20:40:59Z")
🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/372 "2002-12-21T19:35:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*I honestly don’t know how you think that you are doing any “good” here. You are driving people away from your beliefs by showing how ugly and hateful they are. Nobody is going to say “Hey, I have never heard of this Jesus guy… but that hell sure sounds scary so I’m in!” ok? \*\* Somebody might. I can’t assent to that because I have heard of this Jesus guy. Aside from that, I’ll assent to Jesus out of fear of hell and simultaneously admit the possibility that hell may not exist. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by vanilla_ > I don’t know if you do realize you are only turning people Off to the gospel by your postings here. > Are you aware of this? It isn’t turning every single person off to the gospel, so she is succeeding in her purpose here. Besides, I’m attempting to not look at **H4e** anyway, I’m attempting to look at Jesus. (Note attempting. My successes are few and far between, which is a very good thing.) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/373 "2002-12-21T20:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll assent to Jesus out of fear of hell **lel** , I hope you don’t mind if I pity you. ---
**Author:** ![Sdrawkcab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sdrawkcab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sdrawkcab)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/374 "2002-12-21T20:45:54Z")
Sigh… the Christian religion is NOT about avoiding Hell. If you assent to Jesus in order to escape Hell, you have totally missed the point. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/375 "2002-12-21T20:48:58Z")
She doesn’t get it though. She thinks anything other than her beleifs is a watered down gospel, meant only for sinners to feel good about sinning. I don’t think theres any getting thru to her.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/376 "2002-12-21T21:11:05Z")
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” Herbert Spencer ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/377 "2002-12-21T21:15:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\ ***lel** , I hope you don’t mind if I pity you. \*\* Go for it. Wow, I just realized that I just assented to Pascal’s Wager. How’s that for unoriginal thinking? ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/378 "2002-12-21T21:19:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” > > Herbert Spencer \*\* Certainly. Yet one can also learn arguments and information and willfully choose to ignore such – contempt after investigation, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/379 "2002-12-21T21:28:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lel \* > \*\*Certainly. Yet one can also learn arguments and information and willfully choose to ignore such – contempt after investigation, perhaps? \*\* Ignorance titers are lower if one investigates first, and holds in contempt later, than if the reverse is true. And this site is all about fighting ignorance, right? And in case it wasn’t clear, that quote by Spencer was meant for **H4E** ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/380 "2002-12-21T21:44:41Z")
It was clear, **Qadgop**. I’m just responding because I began to investigate things and early on ceased to do so because I so strongly wish to believe in Christianity as propounded by conservative evangelicals that I must suppress things that I have begun to learn in order to believe in such. Is being willfully ignorant after being made aware of one’s ignorance better or worse (comparatively speaking) than being inadvertently ignorant because one refuses to investigate the evidence? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=20)