# His4Ever, why are you telling lies about your Deity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922 "2002-10-05T02:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/61 "2002-10-07T00:44:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kirkland1244 \* > \*\*Actually the Orthodox Bible also includes the two Books of Maccabees (and Three Maccabees and 4 Maccabees, if I recall correctly), as well as an extra Psalm. > > Kirk \*\* Shows what I know! I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Orthodox Bible. I shall have to rectify this. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/62 "2002-10-07T00:57:41Z")
This is about the third time I’ve seen HIS4EVER comment that “gosh, maybe she should just go; shake the dust from her feet and leave us.” To which I reply: How can we miss you if you won’t go away? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/63 "2002-10-07T02:36:55Z")
It’s a good thing you don’t want to get into a definitional argument with me, Princhester. First off, you already did. Second, you dived in with both feet. Third, you forgot to check the terrain. Lastly, you completely ignored the definition and then went on with that hilarious myth about me which you decided you can assure me about my own actions and belief. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/64 "2002-10-07T02:54:20Z")
I am not getting into a definitional debate with you. I said I wouldn’t and I won’t. The Merriam-Webster gives two definitions of lie. The second is the one you rely on. The first is the same as that in the OED (which is the source I checked before making my first post to this thread) . I am not going to argue with you about which definition is correct. As to “ignoring the definition” I don’t know what you mean. If you mean the Merriam-Webster definition, I find it strange that you would suggest that I “ignored” a definition that I spent a paragraph analysing. As to the “hilarious myth”? What are you referring to? I think you think that I am making wild assumptions about your background that I am not. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/65 "2002-10-07T09:36:54Z")
Satyagrahi mused: > [@](#): > > Reading back through my previous post, I wonder if the following analogy to my suggestion occurred to anyone else: Muggers would be well-advised to limit their crime targets to the physically handicapped, as they will have a much better chance of > success. That did occur to me. But I think you’re a bit hard on yourself. You’re not a mugger; you’re just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/66 "2002-10-07T10:01:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **Guess I should probably do what it says in Matthew and shake the dust from my feet and move on.** Maybe, but only if you started from verse 7. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/67 "2002-10-07T16:24:41Z")
Hmmm… **Princhester** , it happens that **RT Firefly** and his wife are friends of me and mine both on and off the board. He is also a fairly fiery poster in political threads. If you were to disagree with his point of view, that would be fine by me. I’d think that you were hopelessly benighted in your political philosophy, to be sure, but that’s your problem, and no grounds for getting upset with you. But if you quoted fragments from three or four of his posts out of context to make it seem like he was advocating armed rebellion against George W. Bush, and then attacked anyone for claiming that he said something quite different, I’d take you to the Pit as a liar, a violator of board rules, and several other choice epithets. It’s in that context that I’m upset with **His4Ever**. By her own admission and mine, we are both committed to following Jesus as our Savior and Lord. There are specific statements which He is claimed to have made in the Gospels about what behavior He expects of us as a result, including a stringent social standard towards all others, a command to bring the Good News of what He accomplished to anyone who will listen, and the rule to chastize each other for falling short of what He orders us to do. IMHO, what **His4Ever** has been doing with her drive-by Bible quotes has been completely contrary to those rules. She has not claimed that the Gospel statements are false – IIRC, quite the opposite – so it is clear that she has left herself open to that final instruction about loving correction. And, again IMHO, her witness has had precisely negative results in doing the job we’re instructed to do by our Lord. Ergo, I’m saying that she is (inadvertently to be sure) lying about Him – by representing Him to be angry and hate-filled towards those to whom she is under orders to express His love and willingness to forgive and welcome as co-members with herself and me in His extended body of believers. For that I reserve the right to call her out, as misrepresenting my Friend and Lord. Needless to say, I am less than pleased to see her misrepresenting the expressed stances of some human friends, on the basis of “what somebody told her that X-ists believe” – most notably my Catholic friends like **beagledave, guinastasia** , and **tomndebb** and my Mormon friends like **Monty**. That in itself would constitute grounds, on the parallel with **RT** that I hypothetically established above, to question who and what she’s doing. But it goes beyond that – claiming sistership with me in Christianity, she’s acting in a way that goes against what my Lord and hers demands of her and of me as His followers, and doing it in _what comes across to many others as a spirit of self-righteousness and condemnation_, whatever her intent in doing it may be. And for this she needs to repent and seek His forgiveness. Again IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/68 "2002-10-07T17:23:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\* > Ergo, I’m saying that she is (inadvertently to be sure) lying about Him – by representing Him to be angry and hate-filled towards those to whom she is under orders to express His love and willingness to forgive and welcome as co-members with herself and me in His extended body of believers. For that I reserve the right to call her out, as misrepresenting my Friend and Lord. \*\* Except, to agree with **Princhester** , I think she really does believe he is angry and hate-filled towards non-Christians, or at least that non-Christians will come to a Bad End. You two start with the same books, but you read them very differently, giving different weight to different passages, and coming to radically different conclusions. As a non-Christian looking at Christianity, IMHO, both your interpretations and general world views can be found in Christianity, and, to the extent they conflict, both groups have said that the other doesn’t fully understand or follow the message of Jesus. So, while I sympathize with what you, and **Monty** , and **Guinistasia** , and everybody else is trying to do is doomed to failure. From her viewpoint, it’s you guys who are making a mess of the Christian message, and nothing you can do or say will get her to change her mind. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/69 "2002-10-07T19:16:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > No, I’m not part of the Salvation Army. Just a **simple Christian** trying to share God’s truth. Guess I should probably do what it says in Matthew and shake the dust from my feet and move on, but don’t know if I’m ready to do that yet. > > **Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12** To quote an annoying, if skilled tv chef, BAM Got it in one. The bolding is mine incidentially, not as if it was particularily hard to figure out. His4ever, you are nothing but a simple minded bigot. I keep wondering how many years you have been practicing your particular flavor of christianity and how you still lack and fundamental understanding of any of your religious texts. You claim you are trying to save us from evil and suffering. But you don’t even understand that the evil we live with is created by the same bigotry and condemnation that you preach. His4ever, thank you. I applaud your efforts in destroying understanding, destroying the acceptance of others and their beliefs that millions have died for. Thank you for your hatred, your fear and everything else your pathetic little mind spews out. Each word you say reminds me how GLAD I am, that I’m able to think for myself. Reach my own conclusions. And most of all, realize that it is my place in society to recognize and appreciate and support people for their ACTIONS not what they believe in. Just remember, His4ever. If you truely understood the messages in the bible you’d realize that you would are doing the exact same thing, repressing and attacking people for their believes, that was done to the first followers of christ. Ahh fuck it. You’re not worth any more of my time. Hell you weren’t worth this much of my time. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/70 "2002-10-07T21:43:15Z")
Well folks, I’m finally home after a longer than planned weekend which started off as a church retreat and which wound up involving a crisis of faith (more about that over in MPSIMS). All I can say is if the only Christian behaviour I encountered was like **His4Ever** ’s and the behaviour I saw on that retreat, there’d be one less Christian today. Fortunately, it’s not. **His4Ever, not only are your words not making converts, they’re a threat to the faith of some of us who already _are_ Christians!** Mark 9:42 > [@](#): > > As for the man who is a cause of stumbling to one of these little ones who have faith, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone round his neck. If I’m going to Hell for that statement, as well as some other areas where **His4Ever** and I differ in belief, so be it. It looks like I’ll have plenty of good company. Marshmallows anyone? 😉 CJ ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2002, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/71 "2002-10-07T23:25:50Z")
**Polycarp** , we are just repeating ourselves, so I’ll be very brief. I think both sides of the debate understand one another. You say: > [@](#): > > Ergo, I’m saying that she is (inadvertently to be sure) lying about Him… My preferred (OED)definition of “lie” is to tell an intentional falsehood. In other words, there is no such thing as an inadvertant lie. We apparently both think **His4ever** believes what she says. Therefore, I don’t think “liar” is an appropriate charge. **Monty** has of course come up with an alternate definition of “lie”, which seems to be closer to what **His4ever** does. Is there anything more to say on this particular issue? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/72 "2002-10-08T00:03:36Z")
did she leave, or something? His4ever…where aaare you? ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/73 "2002-10-08T01:13:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*did she leave, or something? > > His4ever…where aaare you? \*\* I’m here…just reading. Seriously thinking that I ought to leave you folks alone and move on.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/74 "2002-10-08T01:16:47Z")
Ass, door, etc ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/75 "2002-10-08T01:20:10Z")
Oh, I’d like to share this web site with you. It was written by a fellow Christian that I happened to meet on another message board. It’s a long read. [http://www.dzinemaster.com/guysworld/studyofgod.html](http://www.dzinemaster.com/guysworld/studyofgod.html) ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/76 "2002-10-08T01:27:17Z")
Are you still contemplating shaking the dust off your feet at the Christian posters on this board? Do you still think you’re the only one? Haven’t seen a “real” Christian like yourself here yet? Feel like God’s still urging you to deliver your message to all the heathen, including the ones who have already heard it, including the ones who have accepted Christ but somehow don’t cut it in your book, because they refuse to line up with Jack Chick’s ideas? Checking out all those passages that say you’ll be hated for His name’s sake? If so, you’re delusional. I find I’m unable to pray for you, because I’m still shaking with anger. Other Christians, help me out. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/77 "2002-10-08T01:40:34Z")
Read the article, **H4E**. Fairly inept, IMO. I’ve seen much better evangelical apologies. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/78 "2002-10-08T01:42:01Z")
(Sorry, poor choice of words. That was supposed to be “I read the article,” rather than a suggestion that you do so, as I realize you already have.) ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/79 "2002-10-08T01:47:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by masonite \* > \*\*Are you still contemplating shaking the dust off your feet at the Christian posters on this board? > > Do you still think you’re the only one? Haven’t seen a “real” Christian like yourself here yet? Feel like God’s still urging you to deliver your message to all the heathen, including the ones who have already heard it, including the ones who have accepted Christ but somehow don’t cut it in your book, because they refuse to line up with Jack Chick’s ideas? Checking out all those passages that say you’ll be hated for His name’s sake? > > If so, you’re delusional. I find I’m unable to pray for you, because I’m still shaking with anger. Other Christians, help me out. \*\* Excuse me?? When did I say I think I’m the only Christian here? And Jack Chick’s ideas don’t mean a thing unless they agree with Scripture. There are many Christians here, we just happen to disagree on a lot of things. Please check out the website I posted to get a rounded view of God’s character, not the one sided view I keep hearing about. Say what you want about me, God knows my heart. I’ve very sorry that you’re angry. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/80 "2002-10-08T01:51:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I’m here…just reading. Seriously thinking that I ought to leave you folks alone and move on.☹ \*\* You have stirred me into prayer for the first time in my sinning life. I pray you leave us alone and move on. Seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=5)