# His4Ever, why are you telling lies about your Deity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922 "2002-10-05T02:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/101 "2002-10-08T14:26:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*I forgot the poster who coined the term, but the term fits: Fundie Porn. My nomination for that term was Fornography. \*\* A columnist over at the [Ship of Fools](http://ship-of-fools.com/Columns/frameit.htm?Rumsey/Rumsey0902.html) site coined the term “evandalism” to describe “that indiscriminate dumping of the Gospel without thought for the surroundings”. I rather like that neologism, and it seems terribly appropriate in this case… ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/102 "2002-10-08T14:50:10Z")
I haven’t deliberately done any “lying” about my Deity as you call it. I’m trying to share the whole council of Scripture not just the things I or you may like. And I’m tired of being accused of damning people just because I share what the Bible says about something. If you don’t like what the Bible says, fine, that’s your business. I refuse to give out a one sided or lopsided view of God’s character. Since you guys are all on one side concentrating on the part that pleases you, there’s a need for someone to come in and share the other part. Okay, you don’t like that, it’s your business. If you haven’t read the website I posted, I suggest you do for the whole picture of God’s character. My motives here have never been what you think they are but you will never know or believe that. Goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/103 "2002-10-08T14:52:51Z")
I honestly do not understand what you mean by “all of us on one part”. Are you saying all of us chrsitians ove rhere are disagreeing with you? We all agree on the way to salvation. Why are you making it seem as we are all against you? We are not against the gospel message (us christians, that is). And of my question: Do you consdier Monty a christian? Does God? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/104 "2002-10-08T14:56:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* > > Please check out Jude, verses 17-25, particularly verse 23 > The Lord laid this on my heart to share at another board I visit. \*\* And, pray tell, why should I? You haven’t even begun to address any of the numerous passages I’ve mentioned to you. Why waste my breath? Remember-they should know we are Christians by our _love_. How do people know that you are a Christian, **His4ever**? ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/105 "2002-10-08T14:57:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TV time \* > \*\*Why, if there is a God, did that being create a curious spirit and logic, if they weren’t to be used? You do an incredible diservice to this God you profess to believe if you don’t use those gifts you were given. Blind following is not the way to salvation. Think about it. It is, in fact, the best way to get lost. > > TV \*\* I’ve often wondered about that. It seems a literal interpretation of the Bible requires you to shut down parts of your mind. For instance, you may ask “how the hell did Noah fit all those animals in one ark, no matter how big?” and you’re told, “shut up, its a miracle”. Perhaps an answer to that is the story of the fall? When Adam and Eve ate fruit from the tree of knowledge? Does the God of the Bible want us to be ignorant? H4E, I hope you haven’t “shaken the dust off” yet, because I would like to discuss this with you. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/106 "2002-10-08T15:08:11Z")
Why do you keep saying Goodbye and coming back? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/107 "2002-10-08T15:35:24Z")
**His4Ever** > [@](#): > > I refuse to give out a one sided or lopsided view of God’s character. **Bullshit!** By consistently citing verses in which people are condemned and judged, by saying those who disagree with you, even people who are at least as Christian as yourself, are mocking God, that is _exactly_ what you’re doing. Here’s a list of verses you’ve cited in the past week: [ul] [li]Acts4:12 “There is no salvation in anyone else at all, for there is no other name under heaven granted to men by which we may receive salvation.”[/li]This, actually, I don’t have a problem with. (I’m conducting the search while I write the rest of this post) [li]Jude 17-23, especially verse 23 which ends “hate the very clothing which is contaminated with sensuality.”[/li][/ul] I’ve seen you cite the commandment about loving the Lord with all your heart, but you have _never_ mentioned the one about loving your neighbor as yourself, even when directly questioned about it. Instead, you cite an epistle which preaches hate. You’re very fond, I believe, of John 3:16. How about John 3:17, “It was not to judge the world tht God sent his Son into the world, but that through him the world might be saved.” Am I being harsh with you? Damn straight! My own faith was at severe risk this weekend, and what do I find when I get home? You, continuing to spew vitriol in God’s name. You told me once you wanted to change the way you were perceived, and for a while there, it looked like you were actually succeeding in doing so. Now you’re back to the same old, “Anyone who doesn’t believe exactly what I believe is going straight to hell” routine. Hell, to me, is populated with people like you, people who claim to speak sweet words like “I’m just trying to help” but slam the door on anyone who does not have the privilege of being exactly like them. **As far as your religion is concerned, you have lost me forever.** I will not worship your god or darken the doors of your church. I will continue to pray for all those who have been damaged by attitudes like yours. Go. Continue serving that dark, vengeful, judgemental entity you call “God.” Pride yourself on your holiness and condemn the sinners around you. Me, I’ve encountered enough hatred in my life. I do not need yours. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/108 "2002-10-08T15:50:18Z")
No we are NOT simply repeating what we “like” about the Bible. We are simply posting the commands of Jesus Christ, whom you CLAIM to believe in. YOU ignore the commands to love one another. YOU ignore Christ’s admonition NOT TO JUDGE!!! You have not shared God. You have shared the whole, “Do this or you’re going to Hell!” You know what? I don’t care about Hell! I don’t even think about it-or Heaven. I do what I’m supposed to do-to be what God wants me to be. I call you a Christian for Perks-because you only seem concerned about whether or not you go to Heaven or Hell. > [@](#): > > If you forgive the faults of others, your heavenly Father will forgive you yours. If you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive you. -Matthew 6:14-15 > [@](#): > > Let them go their way; they are blind leaders of the blind. If one blind man leads another, both will end in a pit. -Matthew 15:14 > [@](#): > > Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you frauds! You shut the doors of the kingdom of God in men’s faces, neither entering yourselves nor admitting those who are trying to enter. -Matthew 23:13-14 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/109 "2002-10-08T15:50:45Z")
His4ever > [@](#): > > Since you guys are all on one side concentrating on the part that pleases you, there’s a need for someone to come in and share the other part. Share? A person who slings feces is not “sharing”. Even the devil quotes scripture, my dear. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/110 "2002-10-08T15:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*II’m trying to share the whole council of Scripture not just the things I or you may like. And I’m tired of being accused of damning people just because I share what the Bible says about something. \*\* NO. NO. NO. When you said maybe you should take the advice in Matthew and shake the dust off your feet, that was NOT sharing “the whole council of scripture.” That was wrenching a verse out of context, assuming it applied directly to you, and slapping the board with it. Can you really not see this? Do you really believe Jesus would have you twist his words (to the apostles, NOT directly to you), apply them to a completely different situation, and refuse to back down when called on it by fellow Christians? And how could your little driveby scripture quote possibly NOT be perceived as “damning people”? What other way would you have us read it? “Ooh, H4E is getting ready to shake the dust off her feet - I better listen to her now, quick, before she leaves us to our sin!!!” Really? Maybe I’m mis-reading and there’s some other intended result besides blanket condemnation - which equals “damning people.” I’m afraid I can’t come up with another interpretation. I’m just not able to read your quotes and take anything other than damnation away from them. Not only my damnation, but the damnation of the other Christians on this board, whose feet you and I are not fit to wash. You damned them to right to hell. Re-read what you said and think about it. I hope you’re generally more careful with applying the words of Christ directly to yourself. Don’t say, for example, “I am the way, the truth and the life” where “I” means “His4ever”. Surely you see how THIS would be twisting scripture out of context. Do you not see how metaphorically shaking dust at us is also twisting scripture out of context? You took the words of Jesus applied to the apostles, and applied them to yourself in a different situation. Dangerous, dangerous. Please think about that. I think (this is not directed just at you, H4E) that this is an error fundamentalists make all the time. They seem to worship the bible equally with Christ - in fact, I think they sometimes elevate the worship of scripture above the actual worship of Christ - and since they have a very magical view of scripture, it’s important to eventually apply every last word of it to every modern situation. If it’s in scripture, it MUST be relevant today, the thinking goes. This leads to the horrible sad presumption we have seen before, and will see again. It’s been interesting. I think I need to stop interacting with you, H4E, because clearly neither of us is any better for the interaction. I say this here just as a public reminder to myself - I’m going to attempt not to address you again, no matter what you say. If you want to make my burden lighter, try to be less outrageous. If not - fire away, shoot your mouth off, have lots of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/111 "2002-10-08T16:04:45Z")
Lib, Guin, vanilla, et al: I bet H4E thinks my motive in starting this thread was to persecute her. I think my motive is summed up in that lengthy posting of mine just above. It continues to amaze me that BLI Fornographers think that with naught but the ability to C&P, they are endowed with the immense skill of knowledgeable theologians. This thread has both Christians and non-Christians quoting relevant portions of the Bible in context; something H4E doesn’t yet understand how to do. In response to her “goodbye,” I say “Oh, but only if 'twere true she’s really leaving! If true, then ‘good riddance.’” ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/112 "2002-10-08T16:08:02Z")
Please don’t take this as defending H4E, because I think she’s evil and dangerous. But I have to ask, as an agnostic, if the bible really does say the things she quotes (and I believe it does), as well as the positive things the rest of you quote, how could ANYONE follow this book as a blueprint (or even a rough outline) for life? Not only does it contradict itself, but it allows “followers” to become so confused about its message that you can rarely find two people that interpret it the same. I guess I just don’t understand how any of you can truly put faith in ANY of it as the word of your god. As far as I can tell, those of you that don’t take the fundie approach are still reading the same book, with all the same strange rules and regulations…and you choose to ignore some parts of it the same way H4E does. She just happens to dwell on the parts that make god look like some hideous ogre that just crawled out from under a rock, where you focus on the message of love. Maybe someone can elaborate for me? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/113 "2002-10-08T16:16:33Z")
Once again, [The Onion](http://www.theonion.com/onion3616/mistranslated_myths.html) has something relevant to the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/114 "2002-10-08T16:22:45Z")
Monty: She is under the delusion that what threatens her is outside her, when it is in fact deep within her own heart. ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/115 "2002-10-08T16:27:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*Goodbye. \*\* Promise? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/116 "2002-10-08T16:34:17Z")
His4ever: Here is my last appeal to you. After this, I will leave you alone. Jesus said that a tree is known by its fruit. What fruit have you produced here for the Lord? How many souls have you brought to him? How many have you driven away from His kingdom? I am among those beginning to wonder just whose you really are. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/117 "2002-10-08T16:41:22Z")
EchoKitty: H4E isn’t evil or dangerous. There are simply people who don’t recognize that other people have thoughts, rights and beliefs–that only their point of view and they matter. H4E is just one of many that fail to recognize that She’s simply a small minded petty person who is trying to feel better about herself by ‘saving us’. I say let her, this martyr complex she’s developing is getting quite amusing. As for dangerous, people are only as dangerous when you let them. H4E will only become dangerous to you when you start to believe her hate, when you accept her way of thinking and realize how badly you live your life and how you will suffer for your actions. If you want, you can give her power by calling her evil and dangerous. Or just recognize her for what she is, a petty and small person. Anyhoo, it’ll be nice if H4E finally craws back under whatever rock she came from. ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/118 "2002-10-08T16:55:45Z")
CRorex said, “As for dangerous, people are only as dangerous when you let them. H4E will only become dangerous to you when you start to believe her hate, when you accept her way of thinking and realize how badly you live your life and how you will suffer for your actions.” I don’t find her dangerous to ME, but I do think that she poses a threat to the gay community in particular, because she reinforces the notion that homosexuality is “wrong” (which gives some screwed-up people the idea that gays should be punished). She also perpetuates old ideas that gays are somehow sick. These ideas can, and do, put people into depressions that sometimes end in suicide. OK, maybe she’s not “evil”, but I do not believe that her actions are loving or helpful (and I don’t believe SHE believes it in her heart of hearts). She’s been told repeatedly that her spewings cause pain, yet she continues to do it “for our own good.” Well, I don’t buy it. That said, I do agree with you that we all have to do our part to fight the good fight, which I’ll continue to do, but I certainly don’t see her as anything but an obstacle for the thinking world to work around. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/119 "2002-10-08T17:03:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I told you in an e-mail once I’d like to be your friend, and I even defended you on this board. That offer is withdrawn.\* I see no love, no compassion in you, and little willingness to do show any.\* Every one of us sins and none of us deserve grace, yet you stand on your pedestal and condemn people who commit certain sins while admitting none of your own. We’re all going to Hell, lady, or we would be if Christ hadn’t intervened because none of us can successfully obey the entire law on our own, be it Old or New Testament versions. **CJ** , while I concur with most of what you’ve had to say, both here and elsewhere, I have to differ with the italicized passage. It’s been brought home to me by the difference of opinion I had with **Princhester** and some of the comments **His4Ever** has made that she sincerely believes that in sharing the passages of Scripture she has selected, she is showing love to her fellow man – by warning them of YHWH the Big Ogre who is coming to get them. I cannot understand how anyone can worship a God whose sole relationship with His creatures is to inspire fear and a small-child worry about consequences – “Don’t do that, **gobear** – Daddy’ll catch you and punish you!” I read the passage that **His4Ever** linked to, and it did have some valid points. It’s important, however, to look carefully at what it **doesn’t** say. For one thing, it erects the Bible as the coequal of God – it’s “the Word of God.” (I’ll let **Libertarian** have the floor to make the needed correction here, as he does it much more eloquently than I.) And it depicts “the wrath of God” and other characteristics that Scripture attributes to Him as coequal parts of His nature. To be sure, God does appear to expect a particular stringent code of moral behavior from all His creatures, and in particular from those whom He has called to follow Him. But you may have noticed that every single one of us who has addressed that issue, from **Guinastasia** to **gobear** , have focused on the key point of humanistic behavior towards our fellow man – a sense that he or she is equal in dignity and rights with ourselves, to be treated with honor and respect, love and compassion, not as vile sinners hated by God who should instead turn to Him. **EchoKitty** asks something relevant: > [@](#): > > Please don’t take this as defending H4E, because I think she’s evil and dangerous. But I have to ask, as an agnostic, if the bible really does say the things she quotes (and I believe it does), as well as the positive things the rest of you quote, how could ANYONE follow this book as a blueprint (or even a rough outline) for life? > > Not only does it contradict itself, but it allows “followers” to become so confused about its message that you can rarely find two people that interpret it the same. I guess I just don’t understand how any of you can truly put faith in ANY of it as the word of your god. > As far as I can tell, those of you that don’t take the fundie approach are still reading the same book, with all the same strange rules and regulations…and you choose to ignore some parts of it the same way H4E does. She just happens to dwell on the parts that make god look like some hideous ogre that just crawled out from under a rock, where you focus on the message of love. Maybe someone can elaborate for me? You’re entirely right. However, the key point here is one about which both evangelicals and non-Christians make the same mistake: the Bible is not “God’s Statute Book,” with every passage co-equal and intended to set forth His commandments for salvation and living the life He intends. Read the context in which Jesus set forth those two passages regarding what people **must** do that keep getting quoted: > [@](#): > > One of the scribes came near and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, he asked him, “Which commandment is the first of all?” 29 Jesus answered, "The first is, "Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one; 30 you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32 Then the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that "he is one, and besides him there is no other’; 33 and "to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength,’ and “to love one’s neighbor as oneself,’—this is much more important than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” After that no one dared to ask him any question. (Mark 12:28-34) > > Just then a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” 27 He answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have given the right answer; do this, and you will live.” 29 But wanting to justify himself, he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” 30 Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell into the hands of robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 Now by chance a priest was going down that road; and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan while traveling came near him; and when he saw him, he was moved with pity. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. Then he put him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii, F109 gave them to the innkeeper, and said, “Take care of him; and when I come back, I will repay you whatever more you spend.’ 36 Which of these three, do you think, was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of the robbers?” 37 He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.” (Luke 10:25-37) > > 34 When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, 35 and one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, " "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ **40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."** (Matthew 22:34-40) Note that Jesus apparently taught this on **three distinct occasions** , and look at that last, bolded verse in the Matthew passage. It must have been very important to him. Then look at how He put it into practice – “Honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy” gives way to healing because _“The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.”_ To the woman taken in adultery and brought before Him for judgment, after asking those without sin to cast the first stone, he said “Has no one condemned thee? Then neither do I condemn thee. Go, and sin no more.” Then note John 3:16-17: _ **For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.** _ There are a lot more passages worth quoting, but the key point is that the Bible is not a set of rules for people to follow, but guidelines to the ethics God gave for man to follow, with helpful hints on how to carry them out. For example, as a married man, I should not lust after other women, nor gratify my sex drive by lying with a man as with a woman. To do so would be to satisfy myself at the cost of another, reducing her or him to the state of sex object for my pleasure, and so I would be sinning against her or him and against God. (To revert to the passage from Leviticus that started this whole foofaraw, I trust you can see how, in my estimation, that passage does not refer to the situation of two men covenanted to each other in a lifelong relationship of love, unable to formalize it as a legal marriage due to law but living out the vows of marriage.) But the key and context is in treating others as people, not as objects, dupes for a scam, sinners to be saved from Hell, etc. BTW, while Paul is on record about confessing Jesus as Savior and Lord being what is needed for salvation, note what Jesus says in the Mark passage about what one must do to inherit eternal life. If one confesses Jesus as Lord, as Paul urges, one is therefore honorbound to do what Jesus commands as the key to following Him. Rather than being a set of laws, the breaking of which entails condemnation, it’s a guide to a relationship with a God of love, first and foremost, who can be a strict disciplinarian when needed but who intends to have people act towards Him and towards each other as He and they see as most fulfilling. God’s justice and wrath and all the other anthropomorphic emotions attributed to Him are simply different expressions of His love for every man. To look at Scripture in any other way is to elevate it to a status coordinate with God, as though one ignored the Supreme Court and the consensus of our laws, and saw the U.S. Constitution and some random segment of the Code of Federal Regulations as of equal weight, or perhaps saw the CFR passage as superseding the Constitution – after all, it was written later, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/120 "2002-10-08T17:11:11Z")
I think she’s more “dangerous” in the sense that she gives Christians a bad name. Anymore, and this is sad, being RAISED a Christian and a Catholic, I get wary when someone mentions they are Christian, or very religious. And I don’t like feeling that way. Anymore, I get suspicious and afraid that someone might be a fundy. I’m also reluctant to admit that I was raised Catholic or whatever. And that makes me sad. “They will know we are Christians by our love.” But no one does anymore. I’m SERIOUSLY starting to think-seriously-that fundamentalism and people like Chick and the like ARE the beast of the Revelations. IGNORANCE is what will be our downfall. Think about it-it’s not porn or liberals or Harry Potter that is evil and dangerous. It’s ignorance. There’s so much of it-that’s what leads to hatred. That’s what leads to terrorism-the September 11 attacks were caused by ignorant individuals. Ignorance leads to racism, to persecution, to violence. The Bible speaks so much of Wisdom. And warns against ignorance. That’s why I think anymore that I want to perhaps someday be a college professor-because I think ignorance is one of our number one threats. Again, I appeal to the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi (btw, we sing a version of this at church sometimes, and it’s a beautiful song!) Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love; where there is injury,pardon; where there is doubt, faith; where there is despair, hope; where there is darkness, light; and where there is sadness, joy. O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood as to understand; to be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen I think it could even apply to those who aren’t religious at all. That we become instruments of peace-that we love, and we pardon. And then it shall come back to us. It’s so simple, but so few think of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=7)