# His4Ever, why are you telling lies about your Deity? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922 "2002-10-05T02:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/121 "2002-10-08T18:04:54Z")
Polycarp, thanks for the clarification. I much prefer your interpretation of the purpose of the bible to H4E’s. It amazes me that so many people follow such a harsh, hate-filled brand of religion. I just don’t understand how anyone finds comfort in a god like that. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/122 "2002-10-08T18:54:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EchoKitty \* > Polycarp, thanks for the clarification. I much prefer your interpretation of the purpose of the bible to H4E’s. It amazes me that so many people follow such a harsh, hate-filled brand of religion. I just don’t understand how anyone finds comfort in a god like that. To be pessimistic, it’s because they’re off the hook. They’re afraid of what happens if they don’t believe (burning in hell for eternity), and so they’re glad to get a get-out-of-hell card. Most folks I’ve met who act this way seem to think that since they do believe Jesus died to save them from their sins, they can be hateful towards the “appropriate” people - read: “heathens”, “perverts” (homosexuals), and other “unsaved” folks who might worship a religion they don’t agree with, including some branches of Christianity. They get to continue being vile towards some people and pat themselves on the back for it, thinking they’re pious. Other people just aren’t aware there’s another alternative. When I was growing up, I went with my family to a church that was extremely narrow-minded in this respect. My parents went there because it was the same denomination as the one they’d attended when they grew up, and so it was familiar to them. I was filled with fear at the message of a jealous and wrathful deity, and constantly afraid that I couldn’t measure up. I eventually simply began reading and re-reading the Bible over and over during services, rather than listen to the pastor, and did that each week for years. As my sister and I got older, we started rebelling against the “fire and brimstone” preaching, and against messages like women always being subordinate and submissive to their husbands. There were never any women selected to be elders or deacons, even though there were many very devout and helpful women there - they always had to be Sunday school teachers and the like to be able to serve the church at all. It got to the point where we refused to go any longer. My parents finally switched churches, to a different denomination of Christianity, and it was like night and day. Women were allowed to serve the church as elders and deacons. The atmosphere of condemnation wasn’t there. There was still an emphasis on following Jesus’s teachings, we still learned about the commandments, but there was an emphasis on how that brings joy to your life and what comes afterwards. Interestingly, we went to that church because as a teenager, I’d been invited by friends who were members as a guest on field trips. We would get in a big van or rented bus and travel a few hours to museums in Chicago, where we’d learn about science, history, that sort of thing. We even visited a Ba’hai temple once and learned about their beliefs. The embracing of learning and of other people impressed me. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/123 "2002-10-08T19:44:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > Maybe she’s Jack Chick’s _wife_ ?😃 Or Fred Phelps’s? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/124 "2002-10-08T20:01:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > I haven’t deliberately done any “lying” about my Deity as you call it. Doesn’t matter, really, if it’s deliberate or not. But say it does matter–you continued doing it after you’d been shown the facts of the matter. That then is deliberate. > [@](#): > > I’m trying to share the whole council of Scripture not just the things I or you may like. Actually, you’re not. That’s been shown by other posters in this thread. > [@](#): > > And I’m tired of being accused of damning people just because I share what the Bible says about something. Incorrect yet again. I assert you’ve damned people, not by sharing what the Bible says about something but by sharing what you (or more accurately, your faith leader) says the Bible says. > [@](#): > > If you don’t like what the Bible says, fine, that’s your business. Regardless of whose business it is, what I or anyone else thinks of the Bible is a personal opinion. Unlike you, most of those who’ve commented in this thread have what’s known as valid opinions on the subject. That means we’ve considered and studied the pros and cons of it. Some of us have decided to accept it after such study and some others have decided to reject it after such study. What we don’t do is worship the tome itself. > [@](#): > > I refuse to give out a one sided or lopsided view of God’s character. How can you refuse to do that which you constantly, in fact, do? > [@](#): > > Since you guys are all on one side concentrating on the part that pleases you, there’s a need for someone to come in and share the other part. And who told you this? God? The first part of this assertion of yours is an error; i.e., a falsity. Who’s the author of such things, btw? > [@](#): > > Okay, you don’t like that, it’s your business. Still not yours, though, is it now? > [@](#): > > If you haven’t read the website I posted, I suggest you do for the whole picture of God’s character. I kind of prefer to read the entirety of Scripture for that. If you don’t mind, I mean. > [@](#): > > My motives here have never been what you think they are but you will never know or believe that. That’s because you lie. > [@](#): > > Goodbye. Good riddance. But, sadly, you’re probably going to foist your hatred on some other board. {sigh} ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/125 "2002-10-08T20:05:21Z")
**Polycarp** , this may be a first, but I’m going to have to disagree with you. I’m looking for a new church right now, a prime candidate for salvation, in some people’s eyes. I don’t think I’d be welcome in **His4Ever’s** , and not just because of my habit of looking for the true meaning of scripture. I’m willing to believe she’s tried to show compassion, but what it comes across as is condemnation. If I said to her, “I’m lost”, I suspect her response would be, “Well, so you should be.” CJ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/126 "2002-10-08T20:08:25Z")
cj: In your last sentence, you just summed up what I’ve been griping about. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/127 "2002-10-08T20:27:17Z")
CJ wrote: > [@](#): > > I’m looking for a new church right now, a prime candidate for salvation, in some people’s eyes. In my eyes, you are already my brother. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/128 "2002-10-08T20:29:02Z")
Sister, I hope! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/129 "2002-10-08T20:35:34Z")
I like the idea of not worshipping the bible, but most christians do look to it for more than just a collections of examples or suggestions (as Polycarp has suggested). My personal take on it is that the mere concept of a god, in itself, is so hard to get your brain around, that the additional “magical” aspect of it tends to cloud the real issues at hand. I think that’s what happens to the H4Es of the world. They can’t think in the abstract (which is a must if you’re to be a believer!), but they want to believe (the “get-out-of-hell-free” card), so they take all the stories at face value so they don’t have to exercise the ol’ brain cells and make a responsible decision. I believe that some of you believers on these boards are the real McCoy, but I do NOT believe that she really buys any of it. She’s just afraid to live, so she lets a book of fables do her living for her. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/130 "2002-10-08T20:40:08Z")
CJ wrote: > [@](#): > > Sister, I hope! Either way, friend for sure! 🙂 (That takes me back to when I first arrived at SD. I thought that Gaudere was DavidB’s male lover. I wonder whether she remembers that. :D) ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/131 "2002-10-08T20:47:13Z")
Good Lord. I read some of the discussions on these boards and questions I never thought of come into my head. I feel like I’ve got so much to think about. I’ll be scratching my head for days! ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/132 "2002-10-08T20:47:15Z")
**His4ever** , a lot of people are losing patience with you, and I see you responding to their posts. My question to you (if you’re still here) is this: Are you reading **Polycarp** ’s posts? Because I don’t see you responding to them. I don’t see you responding to any of the posters who are treating you with compassion, I only see you responding to the ones who are telling you to fuck off and die. Is that because it’s easier to envision yourself as a martyr than to thoughtfully respond to people’s honest questions about your beliefs? That sounded like a rhetorical question, but I really wish you would address it, because you are making me sad. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/133 "2002-10-08T20:49:59Z")
I have to confess I find it inspiring that, in their reaction the **H4E** ’s hate, the SDMB Christians are reaffirming their committment to love and mutual support in service to God. I suppose, in a perverse sort of way, **H4E** has actually increased the Christian presence here on the Dope. Interesting. **H4E** , read the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. Hint: You’re one of the goats. You also might want to see what Jesus has to say about Pharisees, too. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/134 "2002-10-08T21:17:45Z")
Wow, Gobear, what an amazing observation! * * * Ouisey Welcome to Straight Dope! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/135 "2002-10-08T23:11:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*:rolleyes: > > Sadly for H4E, there’s no Smilie with one’s fingers inserted in one’s ears. That would make her driveby postings much shorter if there were one. \*\* That is the most fantastic idea for a smilie! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/136 "2002-10-08T23:15:24Z")
I have my moments, Princhester. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/137 "2002-10-08T23:33:47Z")
that he does… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/138 "2002-10-09T00:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Doesn’t matter, really, if it’s deliberate or not. But say it does matter–you continued doing it after you’d been shown the facts of the matter. That then is deliberate. Just as well we have you to show us what the facts are. Otherwise where would we be? Thank you oh kind **Monty** for bestowing the true facts upon us. We are not worthy. Or to illustrate the point another way: **Monty** , there is no god. Gods are just human constructs made up by peoples the world over. There is no logical reason to believe in a god, and there is no evidence that gods exist. There are any number of threads on this board and books which demonstrate this You have now been shown the facts of the matter. Any further posts by you to the effect that there is a god will now be deliberate lies. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/139 "2002-10-09T00:37:41Z")
Only in your deluded arena, Princhester. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922/140 "2002-10-09T00:57:34Z")
Don’t deal with the point I illustrate, **Monty**. Just dismiss my world view as deluded. Your world view is, of course, simply factual. You’re beginning to sound like someone else around here… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/his4ever-why-are-you-telling-lies-about-your-deity/130922.md?page=8)