# Hispanics in America shouldn't celebrate 4th of July this year? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2018, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040 "2018-06-30T09:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/21 "2018-07-01T14:39:26Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Has anybody heard this rumor? I’m seeing it on Twitter and random comments a lot but I don’t know if it’s an actual campaign to make a statement to not celebrate or random people just musing. > > I’m curious if there’s an actual movement going on but google is just giving me the same DON’T CELEBRATE 4TH OF JULY articles that pop up every single year. First I heard of it was this thread. And your last sentence is the key here. There is ALWAYS someone out there saying “don’t celebrate” Holiday X or Anniversary Y because of some historical/political/social injustice. Now, as the date approaches, due to the nature of Social Media, the very notion that it was mentioned at all by someone, will become itself its own Thing Worth Mentioning, and in the repeating and relaying before you know it there will be out there an established Myth that this DID happen, complete with fabricated reports of public acts of disloyalty. Oy, humanity sucks. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/22 "2018-07-01T14:40:58Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What does “not celebrating the Fourth of July” even mean? > > Not firing up the grill? No watermelon or corn-on-the-cob? No firecrackers? You have to be really, really dependent. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/23 "2018-07-01T14:50:29Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I’m curious why you feel the need to tell me to relax? Does that post read like I am at all emotional or heated in any way? I never even said that this was a thing, that I believe the campaign exists or that I would care if it did. For the record, I’ve seen no mention of this boycott other than from the OP, nor would I care in any way or take it at all seriously if I had. My apologies. The hour was late and I was rude. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/24 "2018-07-01T16:21:58Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Almost everyone is the descendant of both the conquerees and the conquerors, right? I’m the descendant of both slaves and slave masters. You will never see my ass at a Confederate pride rally, though. To be more on topic, you will never see me waving a flag at the 4th of July parade. You’re more likely to see me doing this at a Juneteeth celebration. Only people who don’t view history through a compassionate lens would be confused as to why. I consider myself sufficiently patriotic in that I pay my taxes, obey laws, perform my civic duties, and don’t collude with foreign governments. Patrioticism isn’t what people do on a single day of the year. It’s what people do every day, when no one is watching. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/25 "2018-07-01T16:38:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m the descendant of both slaves and slave masters. > > You will never see my ass at a Confederate pride rally, though. Of course. But is there a parallel for Latin American Hispanic peoples? Do they generally identify more strongly with their pre-colonial indigenous ancestry? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/26 "2018-07-01T17:02:57Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Of course. > > But is there a parallel for Latin American Hispanic peoples? Do they generally identify more strongly with their pre-colonial indigenous ancestry? I’m sure there’s a lot of them who identify more with their Spanish ancestry than their indigenous or African ancestry, even when visibly they resemble the latter more than the former. I used to work with some Cuban Americans. They identified as white and totally saw themselves as “unadulterated” European descendants. They were also some of the most unapologetically racist folks I’ve ever encountered. Always talking shit about those “Mexicans”. But I digress… I don’t think the majority of Hispanic people are like this, though. That said, my experiences have been limited. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/27 "2018-07-01T18:01:50Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Patrioticism Is that like an exorcism, but they just relentlessly detail Trump and his administration so far? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/28 "2018-07-01T18:07:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m the descendant of both slaves and slave masters. > > You will never see my ass at a Confederate pride rally, though. > > To be more on topic, you will never see me waving a flag at the 4th of July parade. You’re more likely to see me doing this at a Juneteeth celebration. Only people who don’t view history through a compassionate lens would be confused as to why. It probably wouldn’t fly, but June 19th should be a national holiday. I was thinking that this year when someone asked me what Juneteenth was. I knew it had something to do with the end of slavery, but I didn’t know exactly what until I looked it up. And if you had asked me the day before the 19th of June what day Juneteenth was referring to, I would have said “Not sure, but I think it’s June 13”. > [@](#): > > I consider myself sufficiently patriotic in that I pay my taxes, obey laws, perform my civic duties, and don’t collude with foreign governments. Patrioticism isn’t what people do on a single day of the year. It’s what people do every day, when no one is watching. We have lots of patriotic teenagers in this country. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/29 "2018-07-01T18:11:16Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It’s what people do every day, when no one is watching. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > We have lots of patriotic teenagers in this country. 😃 You’re talking about squeezing zits, right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/30 "2018-07-01T18:30:13Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > You’re talking about squeezing zits, right? Yeah, of course. Squeezing zits-- that’s the ticket! ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/31 "2018-07-01T19:49:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > […] > > Hispanic citizens don’t get to “vote and say”? > > […] What I was referring to is the systematic suppression of Hispanic votes. In presidential elections, states with more exclusively white populations such as North Dakota tend to have more powerful votes than states with higher Hispanic populations such as California. In the case of North Dakota and California in particular, North Dakotans get 3.6 times the vote that Californians do. Republicans exploit gerrymandering much more than Democrats do, and their use of it tries to counter the growing population of Hispanic citizens (among other things). There is also a great deal of fear mongering around the polling process, for example with vague threats of deportation or challenge to citizenship status, that can even deter citizens. The ability of Hispanic people who are nonwhite to become citizens is under increased challenge lately, with the President frequently saying racist things and asking for immigrants from very white countries. Hispanic people also get all kinds of additional challenges, such as police profiling, that white people don’t have to deal with. All this stuff figures into how efficiently and effectively people get to say what they think, request what they want, and generally participate in steering our country. Hispanic people do get some control, of course, but they don’t get much of a vote or say relative to what white people are accustomed to. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/32 "2018-07-01T20:42:12Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What does “not celebrating the Fourth of July” even mean? > > Not firing up the grill? No watermelon or corn-on-the-cob? No firecrackers? Anyone with children knows the near-impossibility of that! And since Hispanic families tend to have more children than average, they would be even less likely to not celebrate. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/33 "2018-07-01T22:10:01Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What does “not celebrating the Fourth of July” even mean? > > Not firing up the grill? No watermelon or corn-on-the-cob? No firecrackers? Presumably it would mean treating it the same as any random Saturday. Which is what I’ll likely do, since as a Christian, I’m fundamentally allergic to patriotism. Per MLK: > [@](#): > > As [Paul] said to the Philippian Christians, “Ye are a colony of heaven.” This means that although you live in the colony of time, your ultimate allegiance is to the empire of eternity. You have a dual citizenry. You live both in time and eternity; both in heaven and earth. Therefore, your ultimate allegiance is not to the government, not to the state, not to nation, not to any man-made institution. The Christian owes his ultimate allegiance to God, and if any earthly institution conflicts with God’s will, it is your Christian duty to take a stand against it [emphasis mine]. You must never allow the transitory evanescent demands of man-made institutions to take precedence over the eternal demands of the Almighty God. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/34 "2018-07-01T22:21:34Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Presumably it would mean treating it the same as any random Saturday. > > Which is what I’ll likely do, since as a Christian, I’m fundamentally allergic to patriotism. Per MLK: I think that’s pretty interesting and frankly, cool. I don’t think a lot of Christians share this view, though. I’m guessing that quite a few churches will be doing something patriotic this Wednesday. Once, my aunt dragged me and my family to a 4th of July church service and I’ll never forget how over-the-top “MURICA!!” it was. I’ve never experienced anything like that before and I hope to never ever again. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/35 "2018-07-01T22:47:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t think a lot of Christians share this view, though. I’m guessing that quite a few churches will be doing something patriotic this Wednesday. Here’s our Bob’s view on the matter. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BfHLYIms97A/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGGUgZShlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLBk3ldMwOfo8hqQ3G-7XdDUL1BuvQ "With God On Our Side {Live at Town Hall 1963} (23/25) - Elston Gunn") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfHLYIms97A) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/36 "2018-07-01T23:55:50Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I think that’s pretty interesting and frankly, cool. I don’t think a lot of Christians share this view, though. You’re definitely right about that. It’s weird, though, given how straightforward the logic is. Christians often say that we’re “in the world, but not of it,” which is a pretty straightforward distillation of any number of Scriptures. But if you’re in the _world_, but not of it, then it pretty much directly follows that you’re in [whatever subdivision of the world you happen to be a part of], but not of it as well. > [@](#): > > I’m guessing that quite a few churches will be doing something patriotic this Wednesday. Once, my aunt dragged me and my family to a 4th of July church service and I’ll never forget how over-the-top “MURICA!!” it was. I’ve never experienced anything like that before and I hope to never ever again. But despite the simple logic above, a religion that kept things like national loyalties at arms’ length would be nearly so _marketable._ People want a God who tells them that maybe they’re sinning in little ways, like cutting someone off in traffic, but other than trivial sins like that, they’re right about pretty much everything. So if they’re the flag-waving sort, they want a God that waves their flag just as zealously as they do. That sort of ‘Christianity’ gives me the creeps. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/37 "2018-07-02T00:10:29Z")
I think most Americans celebrate the holiday without even thinking of what it means. I know I generally do, when I celebrate it. Heck, I wasn’t even thinking about that way back when in 1976 going to the bicentennial celebration at the Hatch Shell in Boston. That was some serious fun, though! We were there for the music (Boston Pops) and the fireworks. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/38 "2018-07-02T00:18:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think most Americans celebrate the holiday without even thinking of what it means. I know I generally do, when I celebrate it. Heck, I wasn’t even thinking about that way back when in 1976 going to the bicentennial celebration at the Hatch Shell in Boston. That was some serious fun, though! We were there for the music (Boston Pops) and the fireworks. I agree. I think people celebrate the 4th because it’s fun to celebrate stuff. Parades and BBQs are fun. Fireworks are cool and evoke feelings of nostalgia. All of it does. I could see how someone would feel like everything is so weighed down by politics and seriousness, so it’s nice to just see the 4th as just the 4th. Everyone’s got a birthday, so why not the country? But it’s not just a birthday for a lot of people. And for lots of people, the day is laden with politics, not a day off from them. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/39 "2018-07-02T00:46:26Z")
I “celebrate” or don’t as the spirit moves me (or, more accurately, as I get an invite to someone else’s cook-out or not). The suggestion that anyone should care whether or not their neighbor buys made-in-China bunting and cooks hot dogs outside on a proscribed day is baffling. The idea that the presumed race of that neighbor makes their choice more sinister is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040/40 "2018-07-02T04:23:59Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > The more I’ve thought about it over the years, the less sense I think it makes for ANYBODY to celebrate this holiday. . It’s in the middle of summer, It’s a long bright summer evening. And it’s got fireworks at the end. The rest is irrelevant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hispanics-in-america-shouldnt-celebrate-4th-of-july-this-year/817040.md?page=3)