# Historian: Historians have been wrong about the American right **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 12, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287 "2017-04-12T03:18:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/41 "2017-04-14T13:05:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Kim Davis is still the County Clerk. She was harshly criticized for refusing to serve gay people in her community. > > Why is that a problem? > > Carrie Prejean was criticized, sometimes harshly, for saying something that many disagreed with. > > Why is that a problem? > > Brendan Eich was also criticized harshly, and the criticism started to threaten his company’s business, and he resigned. > > Why is that a problem? > > Yes, criticism often comes after expressing things (or contributing money to groups) that many find bigoted. > > Why is that a problem? Brendan Eich career was completely altered and forever aligned with that vote Why is that a problem? Isn’t that what the religious right would say after firing a gay person or a commie back in the 1950’s? He’s gay so we fired him. Why is that a problem? He is against the current belief system we uphold in this particular era. Do you see the problem? Do you see the similarities? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/42 "2017-04-14T13:06:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > While **phreak9** ’s tone is crazed, there \*have \*been folks like [Brendan Eich](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozilla-ceo-resignation-free-speech/7328759/), [Carrie Prejean](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Prejean#Miss_USA_2009), etc. Now we’re getting somewhere. Does anyone have similar instances of folks having career problems for espousing a “liberal” opinion instead of a “conservative” opinion? We cannot tell if this is an issue until we have statistics to compare. I mean, one CEO stepping down after three weeks on the job and a Miss USA winner hardly indicate a trend. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/43 "2017-04-14T13:07:34Z")
> [@phreak9](#): > > Why is that a problem? > > Isn’t that what the religious right would say after firing a gay person or a commie back in the 1950’s? He’s gay so we fired him. Why is that a problem? He is against the current belief system we uphold in this particular era. > > Do you see the problem? Do you see the similarities? Who was fired? They were criticized. Criticism is not the same as being fired. It’s entirely reasonable to criticize someone after you think they said or did something bigoted (or otherwise wrong). ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/44 "2017-04-14T13:12:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who was fired? They were criticized. Criticism is not the same as being fired. It’s entirely reasonable to criticize someone after you think they said or did something bigoted (or otherwise wrong). Brendan was pressured to step down as CEO. Might as well have been fired. Career seriously alterred. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/45 "2017-04-14T13:13:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who was fired? They were criticized. Criticism is not the same as being fired. It’s entirely reasonable to criticize someone after you think they said or did something bigoted (or otherwise wrong). yes ‘otherwise wrong’. Like being gay in the 1950’s. you still dont see it? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/46 "2017-04-14T13:14:27Z")
Ideally we wouldn’t be having public witch hunts regardless of which brand of witchcraft people were espousing. To be sure, the First Amendment just means the government can’t shut you up. It doesn’t mean that all speech is guaranteed to be consequences-free in all arenas. Destroying careers over unpopular politics is either doing the right thing for the wrong reason or the wrong thing for the right reason. Either way there’s a wrong in there somewhere. Big bosses are in a somewhat special place because bosses’ personal actions impact on the business the shareholders hired him/her to advance. Celebrities are in a somewhat special place because their public esteem \*is \*their main product. Celebrity bosses are both. As such it behooves one to be politically aware and suitably circumspect. Living in a society made up of v2.0 chimps isn’t always logical or easy. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/47 "2017-04-14T13:17:36Z")
> [@phreak9](#): > > Brendan was pressured to step down as CEO. Might as well have been fired. Career seriously alterred. Um, life’s tough? No one is guaranteed that their careers will not be “seriously alterred” at any time in their lives. He is still much richer than I will ever be. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/48 "2017-04-14T13:18:03Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Now we’re getting somewhere. Does anyone have similar instances of folks having career problems for espousing a “liberal” opinion instead of a “conservative” opinion? > > We cannot tell if this is an issue until we have statistics to compare. > > I mean, one CEO stepping down after three weeks on the job and a Miss USA winner hardly indicate a trend. If celebs and rich people in LA spoke their minds their would be a 100 in a month. Mozilla CEO was a bright shining example of waht happens if you talk too much or if people find out. People around here dont talk in public about conservative things. Im a white progressive guy and I get liberals hating on me often because white is a target. People supporting the Trump star on the walk of fame got beaten up by liberals! That was on all the news channels here. Its nuts here. Tim Allen isnt lying. I dont really care for the Mark Dice guy [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riHh5t8errA) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/49 "2017-04-14T13:20:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Kim Davis is still the County Clerk. She was harshly criticized for refusing to serve gay people in her community. > > Why is that a problem? > > Carrie Prejean was criticized, sometimes harshly, for saying something that many disagreed with. She was not fired. > > Why is that a problem? > > Brendan Eich was also criticized harshly, and the criticism started to threaten his company’s business, and he resigned. > > Why is that a problem? > > Yes, criticism often comes after expressing things (or contributing money to groups) that many find bigoted. > > Why is that a problem? You’re moving the goalposts. You’ve gone from challenging that people have been fired for espousing illiberal views, to saying, “Yes they were fired, but why is that bad?” (Yes, I know, Prejean wasn’t technically “fired,” but in the context of being a contestant on a TV game show, losing because of Thing X or Thing Y is the equivalent of being fired.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/50 "2017-04-14T13:21:28Z")
> [@phreak9](#): > > yes ‘otherwise wrong’. Like being gay in the 1950’s. > > you still dont see it? Are you saying that criticizing someone for advocating for discrimination is the same as actually discriminating against people? Do you think that criticizing Nazis is the same as being a Nazi? ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/51 "2017-04-14T13:23:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are you saying that criticizing someone for advocating for discrimination is the same as actually discriminating against people? > > Do you think that criticizing Nazis is the same as being a Nazi? I will give you a year to figure it out. I dont think you can do it ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/52 "2017-04-14T13:23:41Z")
> [@phreak9](#): > > Brendan was pressured to step down as CEO. Might as well have been fired. Career seriously alterred. So a public figure advocated for discrimination and his career was “seriously alterred”… would you suggest that if he had advocated for white supremacism, any criticism of him was similarly unwarranted (or SJW or whatever)? Or do you just not think advocating for discrimination against gay people is as bad as advocating for white supremacism? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/53 "2017-04-14T13:24:48Z")
> [@phreak9](#): > > I will give you a year to figure it out. I dont think you can do it Your position is not at all clear to me. Do you think public figures should be exempt from criticism? If not, then what is your position? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/54 "2017-04-14T13:26:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You’re moving the goalposts. You’ve gone from challenging that people have been fired for espousing illiberal views, to saying, “Yes they were fired, but why is that bad?” > > (Yes, I know, Prejean wasn’t technically “fired,” but in the context of being a contestant on a TV game show, losing because of Thing X or Thing Y is the equivalent of being fired.) No goalposts were moved – none of them were fired. Eich resigned, because his company was having its bottom lined threatened. What’s the alternative? People who disagree with Eich just shouldn’t criticize him? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/55 "2017-04-14T13:28:24Z")
There is a might-makes-right argument here - that if enough people clamor for Person X to lose his/her job or get demoted or lose on a game show due to his/her opinion, that he/she should suffer just that. And I suspect it’s one of those arguments that is easy and comfortable to make…unless the shoe is on the other foot someday. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/56 "2017-04-14T13:29:15Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Ideally we wouldn’t be having public witch hunts regardless of which brand of witchcraft people were espousing. > > To be sure, the First Amendment just means the government can’t shut you up. It doesn’t mean that all speech is guaranteed to be consequences-free in all arenas. > > Destroying careers over unpopular politics is either doing the right thing for the wrong reason or the wrong thing for the right reason. Either way there’s a wrong in there somewhere. > > Big bosses are in a somewhat special place because bosses’ personal actions impact on the business the shareholders hired him/her to advance. Celebrities are in a somewhat special place because their public esteem \*is \*their main product. > > Celebrity bosses are both. As such it behooves one to be politically aware and suitably circumspect. Living in a society made up of v2.0 chimps isn’t always logical or easy. v2.0 Chimps is exactly right! I may start carrying around $100 bills and pay people to have intelligent conversations. Outside of the internet I think I have had 1 intelligent conversation in the last year. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/57 "2017-04-14T13:30:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No goalposts were moved – none of them were fired. Eich resigned, because his company was having its bottom lined threatened. > > What’s the alternative? People who disagree with Eich just shouldn’t criticize him? you’re gonna need 2 years. I will give you 2 years. Still dont think you can figure it out ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/58 "2017-04-14T13:30:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There is a might-makes-right argument here - that if enough people clamor for Person X to lose his/her job or get demoted or lose on a game show due to his/her opinion, that he/she should suffer just that. > > And I suspect it’s one of those arguments that is easy and comfortable to make…unless the shoe is on the other foot someday. There’s no “should” – it’s always been this way in any society with free speech and a capitalist economy. And it probably always will be this way. I’m also saying that I have no problem with criticism of a public figure for expressing bigoted views – they should be criticized. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/59 "2017-04-14T13:31:53Z")
> [@phreak9](#): > > you’re gonna need 2 years. I will give you 2 years. > > Still dont think you can figure it out If you’re going to say unsupported things (like “anyone” who says something anti-SSM is fired), and then weird, cryptic dodging posts like this one, then no, your position will remain indecipherable. If you’d like to speak plainly and actually discuss the issue, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287/60 "2017-04-14T13:32:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You’re moving the goalposts. You’ve gone from challenging that people have been fired for espousing illiberal views, to saying, “Yes they were fired, but why is that bad?” > > (Yes, I know, Prejean wasn’t technically “fired,” but in the context of being a contestant on a TV game show, losing because of Thing X or Thing Y is the equivalent of being fired.) Eich also was not fired. He stepped down. Davis was not fired either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historian-historians-have-been-wrong-about-the-american-right/784287.md?page=4)