# Historic re-enactors dressing up as Nazis at a private party. Is that kosher? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992 "2014-03-18T11:38:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/61 "2014-03-18T17:43:47Z")
> [@WheatCat](#): > > No, but they are more prominent because of their size. > > Now, you aren’t any Socrates, so instead of this run of leading questions why don’t you submit your own opinion so we can evaluate it? Leading? You objected to the flags, I suspected the flags were actually immaterial to your view, and I was right. Given my suspicion, there was no point in my writing some spirited defense of the flags, when they actually had nothing to do with your opinion on this matter. My opinion has already been given, more or less, but to expand on it: These aren’t Nazi buffs, they are a war re-enactment group in costume\*. They are at a private dinner, not marching through the streets; there is no risk of shock or trauma being inflicted on the good people of Minneapolis. Far from pushing some sort of Nazi agenda, the existence of this private event only became publicized by leaked photos. Those facts clearly establish that there’s no pro-Nazi political motive at work here, nor any harm done…so who cares? - ETA: Which isn’t to say there cannot be overlap between these groups, but they are distinct. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/62 "2014-03-18T17:49:06Z")
I’ve had two occasions in my life where I interacted with someone dressed in a Nazi uniform. The first was in high school. A kid I was sort of friendly with dressed up for Halloween as Adolf Hitler, with a bullet hole in his forehead. Pretty clearly an anti-Nazi message, but still: why did he own a fairly accurate replica Nazi uniform? I don’t know what happened to him after high school, but I know that during the time I knew him, he wasn’t remotely racist or anti-Semitic. Just kind of a weird kid. The second was a guy who’s a regular at a gaming convention I go to every year. I don’t know anything about him, I just share a “hey, it’s that guy,” nod with him once every Memorial Day weekend. One year he was tooling around the convention hall dressed like a Nazi officer, theatrically clutching at a briefcase. It took me a while until I twigged to what he was doing: cosplaying [von Stauffenberg.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_von_Stauffenberg) Again, not exactly an endorsement of the ideas and policies of Adolf Hitler, but still. Of course, I’ve met lots of people who like to dress up as [these sorts of Stormtroopers.](http://www.501st.com/) Obviously, if you’re dressing up as Darth Vader, you’re probably not secretly endorsing a pro-destruction of Alderaan position. But, isn’t it possible that the mechanic behind some people wanting to dress up as space fascists is behind some people wanting to dress up as German fascists? Is there a difference between being inspired to dress like a Nazi by watching _Triumph of the Will_, and being inspired to dress like a Nazi by watching _Raiders of the Lost Ark_? I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if this group has a higher than average number of neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers. But I also wouldn’t take membership in this group as evidence, in and of itself, of any particular political leaning. They could just be geeks, and geeks do all sorts of weird, off-putting things. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/63 "2014-03-18T17:49:36Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > These aren’t Nazi buffs, they are a war re-enactment group in costume\*. They are at a private dinner, not marching through the streets; there is no risk of shock or trauma being inflicted on the good people of Minneapolis. Far from pushing some sort of Nazi agenda, the existence of this private event only became publicized by leaked photos. Those facts clearly establish that there’s no pro-Nazi political motive at work here, nor any harm done…so who cares? Yeah, but the quote from the OP link seems to go against your “facts”: [QUOTE=the quote from an attendee again] You’re not there because you believe in what Hitler stood for — **you’re there to educate people about history** , and a lot of that is so people don’t forget. [/QUOTE] So who are these people who need educating lest they forget? It can’t be the same people in the group dressed up as Nazis too, because that wouldn’t make sense. They don’t need educating. ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/64 "2014-03-18T17:51:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > [Yes, apparently](http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=40&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_f-40&gsln=Pierzchalski&uidh=000). German origin seems to be the majority emigrating country, followed by Polish. But regardless, it’s a German restaurant that has an owner. Many if not most not all those listed who were born prior to 1918 were probably ethnic Poles who listed Germany as their place of birth because they were born in that part of Poland which then belonged to Geramny. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/65 "2014-03-18T17:53:25Z")
I remember one idiot Congressional candidate from IIRC Ohio who’s career was torpedoed because he liked playing a Nazi in reenactment groups. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/66 "2014-03-18T17:54:27Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Do they ever have non-Nazi parties? If we found out that next month they’d be having a British Officer party I’d call this a complete non-issue. According to their [website](http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/196/2/109.abstract), they about 1800 members that reenact a wide variety of WW2 era armies, from the UK, US, Australia, Germany and others. This looks to be one of the groups that does Germany. I would go with the idea that this is a non-issue. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/67 "2014-03-18T17:57:19Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Yeah, but the quote from the OP link seems to go against your “facts”: > > So who are these people who need educating lest they forget? It can’t be the same people in the group dressed up as Nazis too, because that wouldn’t make sense. They don’t need educating. I respectfully disagree with your interpretation. Here’s how it appears in the [_International Business Times_](http://www.ibtimes.com/minneapolis-nazi-christmas-party-star-trek-convention-world-war-ii-enthusiasts-ww2-re-enactor-says): > [@](#): > > “All of the German [re-enactment] groups in Minnesota have a Christmas party because we don’t typically have events going on in the winter,” Boroom told CityPages. “It’s just like any club that has a party. Because they dress up like Germans from World War II, it’s cool to go to a German restaurant, eat German food, and drink German beer.” > > Boroom, who owns a barbershop in Lakeville, Minn., also said wearing Nazi or German uniforms does not mean group members endorse Nazi or German World War II-era beliefs. > > “If you wear a German uniform or a Nazi uniform, it’s not like you’re saying, ‘I think Hitler was super cool’ or ‘I hate Jews’ or ‘I hate gays’ or ‘I hate democrats,’” Boroom said. “You’re not there because you believe in what Hitler stood for – you’re there to educate people about history, and a lot of that is so people don’t forget. It’s the same as wanting to be the bad guy when you’re playing cowboys and Indians. There’s an attraction to the bad side.” It seems pretty clear that the first paragraph is about the party specifically, and the third is about wearing Nazi/German uniforms in general, such as at re-enactment events. That the dinner itself was an educational event doesn’t make sense, and doesn’t seem to be supported by what the man said. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/68 "2014-03-18T18:04:59Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I respectfully disagree with your interpretation. Here’s how it appears in the [_International Business Times_](http://www.ibtimes.com/minneapolis-nazi-christmas-party-star-trek-convention-world-war-ii-enthusiasts-ww2-re-enactor-says): And that’s the same quote that was linked to in the OP. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > It seems pretty clear that the first paragraph is about the party specifically, and the third is about wearing Nazi/German uniforms in general, such as at re-enactment events. That the dinner itself was an educational event doesn’t make sense, and doesn’t seem to be supported by what the man said. DId you mean “that the dinner itself was **not** an educational event”? Otherwise I’m having a very hard time parsing what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/69 "2014-03-18T18:14:10Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > And that’s the same quote that was linked to in the OP. With more context, including the portion where he addresses the party specifically. The portion in the OP sure doesn’t seem to be about the party itself. > [@stpauler](#): > > DId you mean “that the dinner itself was **not** an educational event”? Otherwise I’m having a very hard time parsing what your point is. No, I meant it as I wrote it. To clarify: Option 1: Boroom is claiming that the dinner was an educational event, which justified wearing the uniforms. Option 2: Boroom is saying two different things in the two different paragraphs: that the dinner is an off-season social event, and that the reason his group wears Nazi uniforms in general is for educational (ie, re-enactment) purposes. Option 1 makes no sense to me. As you say, it was a private party, there was no one there to educate. Option 2 makes perfect sense, in light of his full remarks. I mean, it’s _possible_ he’s saying that the dinner was for educational purposes, but it seems like a real stretch. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/70 "2014-03-18T18:38:02Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > With more context, including the portion where he addresses the party specifically. The portion in the OP sure doesn’t seem to be about the party itself. > > No, I meant it as I wrote it. To clarify: > > Option 1: Boroom is claiming that the dinner was an educational event, which justified wearing the uniforms. > > Option 2: Boroom is saying two different things in the two different paragraphs: that the dinner is an off-season social event, and that the reason his group wears Nazi uniforms in general is for educational (ie, re-enactment) purposes. > Option 1 makes no sense to me. As you say, it was a private party, there was no one there to educate. Option 2 makes perfect sense, in light of his full remarks. > > I mean, it’s _possible_ he’s saying that the dinner was for educational purposes, but it seems like a real stretch. Neither option satiate his position of educational neutrality since the point of him saying that is to defend his position of wearing said uniform. It wasn’t like he was responding about the history of the group, he was defending the use of the uniforms in this off-season unsanctioned party. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/71 "2014-03-18T18:49:52Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Neither option satiate his position of educational neutrality since the point of him saying that is to defend his position of wearing said uniform. It wasn’t like he was responding about the history of the group, he was defending the use of the uniforms in this off-season unsanctioned party. We don’t know the questions he was asked, unless you have an interview transcript. I couldn’t find one. It wouldn’t beggar belief that he was asked why his group would ever wear Nazi/German uniforms, whether that indicated support for Nazi ideology, and so forth. Actually, we don’t even know that his statements were in the form of an interview, as opposed to giving a statement (albeit a disorganized one). Is it your position that he meant that the dinner itself was an educational event, which is plainly foolish (no one to educate, as you note), therefore he’s lying about the real reason his group wears Nazi uniforms? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/72 "2014-03-18T19:13:15Z")
I tend to look at this from the perspective of a re-enactor in remission. I mostly agree with looking at it only that way. > [@Kobal2](#): > > . . . This is a re-enactors set who, besides having their fun playing what amounts to historical paintball against Allies-kitted folks once in a while (which is fine by me), dress up once a year to go to a German-themed restaurant for Bratwurst and Malzbier. . . . IOW on this particular occasion, they ain’t re-enacting shit. They’re enjoying Nazi cosplay for its own sake. . . . Typically re-enactors don’t switch sides, no. For one thing, it’s already somewhat expensive to get just the one historically accurate kit ; for another dressing up is serious business, with unit loyalty and _esprit de corps_ up to here ! The only experience I have with Nazi re-enactors was one year when a park in Fresno rented out half of its area to the medieval re-enactors and the other half to the WWII re-enactors. We all got to eyeball each other’s costumes and speculate on why someone would want to dress up like that. I can’t speak to why a person would choose the Nazi side in a recreation, but every group has one or more subgroups of folks who are a little more transgressive and/or who want to party harder. One the more obvious subgroups on the medieval side was The Pirates. For that weekend, after the main re-enactments were over, the SS would come party with the pirates. > [@WheatCat](#): > > Nazi depravity is so extreme that there are no social occasions, including costume parties, where Nazi regalia is acceptable. > > Furthermore I have my doubts about anyone who takes the Nazi side during wargame reenactment, . . . . The only reason I’d agree with that is to keep from hurting people. Not to keep from upsetting people, necessarily, but it’s recent enough history that it’s possible to intersect with people who lived through part of the horror, or with their children, who were affected second-hand. > [@astorian](#): > > Dressing up as Nazis in a WW2 battle re-enactment sounds silly but harmless. > > Having some beer and brats at a German themed party sounds like fun. > > But dressing as Nazis at a restaurant for no particular reason sounds just a bit creepy.There are all kinds of traditional German costumes one could dress in if one just wanted to celebrate German heritage. Wear lederhosen, or dress as Beethoven, for crying out loud! I’m kind of torn about that. The group doesn’t re-enact the 1940’s or German Heritage, they re-enact the war. If they’re meeting as the re-enactment group, and this is the only non-field meeting they have, a different costume would be jarringly out of context and a bother to obtain. If they’re meeting as several groups, being in street clothes would cut down on the number of people each one recognizes as someone they’ve met. So wouldn’t mind them being in their regular costumes, but I’d expect them to take care to keep things in a back room at the restaurant, so there’s little chance of running into someone who will be hurt by the sudden sight. And I’d expect them to do their best to explain their context and reassure folks that they’re not sympathizers. It looks like they were trying to do that. > [@](#): > > The source, who wishes to remain anonymous, had received the photo from a friend, but gave no further context about who took the photo. I won’t speculate on the motives of whoever sent the picture in. But it sounds like no one was traumatized that night. (interesting typo - typed draumatized the first time) ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/73 "2014-03-18T19:38:50Z")
> [@Human Action](#): > > Leading? You objected to the flags, I suspected the flags were actually immaterial to your view, and I was right. Given my suspicion, there was no point in my writing some spirited defense of the flags, when they actually had nothing to do with your opinion on this matter. The flags are immaterial only according to the substandard and unfathomable logic you must be employing. I originally used the term “Nazi regalia” as in objects bearing the distinguishing symbols of Nazism. A swastika flag is a prime example, but there are innumerable others, all of which are materially offensive. I hope that clears it up for you. > [@Human Action](#): > > My opinion has already been given, more or less, but to expand on it: > > These aren’t Nazi buffs, they are a war re-enactment group in costume. I have already questioned the sincerity of their ridiculous disclaimers (Education?- yeah, right). > [@Human Action](#): > > They are at a private dinner, not marching through the streets; there is no risk of shock or trauma being inflicted on the good people of Minneapolis. Far from pushing some sort of Nazi agenda, the existence of this private event only became publicized by leaked photos. This would be true only if they if they waited until they got completely out of public sight in a private room before they broke out their Nazi regalia, meaning they kept it folded and tucked out of sight. The link does not provide corroboration for such considerate behavior, though. > [@Human Action](#): > > Those facts clearly establish that there’s no pro-Nazi political motive at work here, nor any harm done…so who cares? Publicity is not necessary to render an act offensive, unless you think it’s OK to beat your wife as long as no one finds out about it. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/74 "2014-03-18T19:47:05Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Is it your position that he meant that the dinner itself was an educational event, which is plainly foolish (no one to educate, as you note), therefore he’s lying about the real reason his group wears Nazi uniforms? I’d be willing to opine that speaking that he is speaking only on his own behalf(and not the group, since he does not claim to be a spokesperson for the group and individuals in the group can and just might have their own real reasons). That said we know the following: 1. They had a party in Nazi uniforms. 2. This party was outside of the standard sponsored group’s functions (but has been recurring for 16 years. 3. The rationale he gave for wearing said uniforms was “you’re there to educate people about history, and a lot of that is so people don’t forget” We can reasonably assume that this was not open to the public in general and I’m still not sure whom is supposed to be educated about the history of a nice dinner at a German restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Anondragon2012](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anondragon2012](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anondragon2012)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/75 "2014-03-18T20:01:26Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > A group of historical re-enactors (I really want to put that in quotes, because I’m not personally convinced they are) have been having a yearly party at a German restaurant in Minneapolis, MN. [Pictures have surfaced of them-and the restaurant-dressed up as Nazis](http://blogs.citypages.com/food/2014/03/gasthofs_nazi_photo_gasthof_zur_gemutlichkeit.php). Swastika flags adorn the walls and people are dressed in Germany WWII-era uniforms. > > First off, I am really curious who the bad guy is when playing “cowboys and Indians”. But more importantly, especially to this thread, is that this event is not “educating” anybody. I’m not sure how a group of like-minded individuals at a closed private party are going to be educating anybody by dressing up as Nazis and hanging swastikas on the walls. > > Let me go back a couple steps and say that I don’t understand the historical re-enactors at all. Those who get dressed to re-enact the Civil War battles. I just don’t get the appeal and the themes that go along with it. The thing with the Civil War is that at least any person who was in that war is now dead. WW2? Not so much. > > I’m not saying take away these folks’ free speech or right to associate or do whatever they are doing. I’m just saying that I’m judging them as either being really, EXTREMELY, socially inept. Or just plain Neo-Nazis. I’m really not seeing the middle ground here. Americans are well known fanatics about re-enacting. Particularely of German Armed forces 1933-1945. Really they are just nerds who love German uniforms, German weapons, etc. Most either have no idea about Nazism, and/or will outright ban any political support of them during re-enactment. So yes its “kosher”. The thing is that for Jews and Germans alike its taboo to dress as Wehrmacht or have Swastika flags. In Germany its actually illegal. This is where the shock comes from. If you were to look at historical reality though… You can see that they are always dressing as Wehrmacht. Not Nazi Party members. = So Wehrmacht is apolitical. Just Armed forces of Germany. And Swastika flag was indeed the lawful flag of the German Empire 1933-1945. It was shown around the world in German Ambassies in USA, etc. So technically its not illogical either. Again problem comes from emotional response some people have about this. For example, when the Bundeswehr (Modern German Army) rolls across the main Avenue in Paris in modern day (they are allowed to do so as the French and Germans share a Brigade), many anti-Germans and veterans of WW2 are shocked because the very visible symbol of the German Army is the Iron Cross. The same symbol as the Wehrmacht, just styled in modern way. To come back to re-enactors, I would bet there are more true racist sitting with suits in Investment banks commenting behind doors. Or even at black only or hispanic only parties, Especially among Jewish only (the evil Aryan goyyyyyyyim) Than among this group of re-enactors who are just nerdy memory lovers and actors. ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/76 "2014-03-18T20:16:21Z")
> [@WhatCat](#): > > Nazi depravity is so extreme that there are no social occasions, including costume parties, where Nazi regalia is acceptable. > > Furthermore I have my doubts about anyone who takes the Nazi side during wargame reenactment, . . > [@Yllaria](#): > > The only reason I’d agree with that is to keep from hurting people. Not to keep from upsetting people, necessarily, but it’s recent enough history that it’s possible to intersect with people who lived through part of the horror, or with their children, who were affected second-hand. So as soon as we obtain a bit more chronological remoteness we don’t need to worry about hurting anyone badly enough, or something like that? Nazi depravity will never be diluted. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/77 "2014-03-18T20:27:12Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I’d be willing to opine that speaking that he is speaking only on his own behalf(and not the group, since he does not claim to be a spokesperson for the group and individuals in the group can and just might have their own real reasons). That said we know the following: > > 1. They had a party in Nazi uniforms. > 2. This party was outside of the standard sponsored group’s functions (but has been recurring for 16 years. > 3. The rationale he gave for wearing said uniforms was “you’re there to educate people about history, and a lot of that is so people don’t forget” > > We can reasonably assume that this was not open to the public in general and I’m still not sure whom is supposed to be educated about the history of a nice dinner at a German restaurant. I can only reiterate that the rationale most likely referred to the group’s normal activities, and not the dinner specifically. By way of further evidence, here’s the [original source, CityPages:](http://blogs.citypages.com/food/2014/03/gasthofs_nazi_photo_gasthof_zur_gemutlichkeit.php) > [@](#): > > Jon Boorom, a member of WWII Historical Re-enactment Society Inc. and owner of the Lakeville Barbers, says he was at the December event depicted in the photo, which he likened to “a Star Trek convention but for WWII enthusiasts.” > > “All of the German [re-enactment] groups in Minnesota have a Christmas party because we don’t typically have events going on in the winter,” Boorom says. “It’s just like any club that has a party. Because they dress up like Germans from World War II, it’s cool to go to a German restaurant, eat German food, and drink German beer.” > > Gasthof’s owner, Mario Pierzchalski, declined our invitations to speak about the incident. > > According to Boorom, the Christmas party is an annual event that has been celebrated for 16 years, but only held at Gasthof’s for the last six. Outside of that night, members are involved in educational activities, weekend re-enactment events, and films. > > He also maintains that members of the German WWII re-enactment groups are given extensive background checks and no neo-Nazis or “political racists” are allowed to take part in the events. > > “If you wear a German uniform or a Nazi uniform, it’s not like you’re saying, ‘I think Hitler was super cool’ or ‘I hate Jews’ or ‘I hate gays’ or ‘I hate democrats,’” Boorom explains. “You’re not there because you believe in what Hitler stood for – you’re there to educate people about history, and a lot of that is so people don’t forget. It’s the same as wanting to be the bad guy when you’re playing cowboys and Indians. There’s an attraction to the bad side.” As you can see, Boroom speaks about the party, then shifts to speaking about the nature of the group (the paragraph about background checks). I submit that the final paragraph is also about the nature of the group, and not the party, rather than Boroom circling back to talk about the party, and in a nonsensical fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/78 "2014-03-18T20:35:14Z")
> [@WheatCat](#): > > The flags are immaterial only according to the substandard and unfathomable logic you must be employing. Hey, maybe settle down on the personal rancor. > [@WheatCat](#): > > I originally used the term “Nazi regalia” as in objects bearing the distinguishing symbols of Nazism. A swastika flag is a prime example, but there are innumerable others, all of which are materially offensive. I hope that clears it up for you. It does. The post you directed at me, #51, only addressed the flags. It doesn’t take “substandard and unfathomable logic” to think you were making the flags a priority. > [@WheatCat](#): > > I have already questioned the sincerity of their ridiculous disclaimers (Education?- yeah, right). [World War II Historical Re-Enactment Society: About Us](http://worldwartwohrs.org/AboutUs.htm) > [@](#): > > Attention Educators! > > The WWII H.R.S. Inc., can offer educators an opportunity to introduce historic interpreters into the classroom. Our members are always interested in helping their communities to bring history to life for students and the public. Our members do not charge for their services although they usually accept donations for their travel expenses or maintenance on their historic vehicles. Is there some reason, beyond the desire for RO, that you reject the concept of re-enactors as educators? > [@WheatCat](#): > > This would be true only if they if they waited until they got completely out of public sight in a private room before they broke out their Nazi regalia, meaning they kept it folded and tucked out of sight. The link does not provide corroboration for such considerate behavior, though. You mean they may have walked from the restaurant parking lot to the restaurant door in Nazi/German attire? I’m not shuddering with outrage here. > [@WheatCat](#): > > Publicity is not necessary to render an act offensive, unless you think it’s OK to beat your wife as long as no one finds out about it. It’s necessary in this case for any harm to have been done, of any kind. If you think it’s offensive, bully for you. If no one was harmed, and no Nazi movement is gaining steam, it’s pure RO. Nothing’s at stake. ---
**Author:** ![Anondragon2012](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anondragon2012](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anondragon2012)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/79 "2014-03-18T20:55:28Z")
> [@WheatCat](#): > > So as soon as we obtain a bit more chronological remoteness we don’t need to worry about hurting anyone badly enough, or something like that? Nazi depravity will never be diluted. Basically make the law like Germany & Austria is what you’re saying. Somehow I think Yankees will never abide by this, they value their basic freedoms too much. Its not just German Army re-enactors…There are 1000s of different groups and associations who dress in different ways in the USA. Would be legal nightmare. To be honest I think ironically the German mentality about outlawing Nazis and anything associated with them, is almost more Nazi in behavior than the actual people they are legally persecuting. Then again you have to remember that in 1945 most NSDAP/NAZI party members assimilated into the main political parties (left or right wing). Nazi lawyers became CDU or SDP lawyers, etc. So its only logical that the same intolerant attitude would be maintained no matter the political line. Ironic…all this. It’s like Israel. Really the Jews probably don’t notice the irony that most of their ethnic beliefs are closely similar to National-Socialism. I dont oppose Israel Im just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/80 "2014-03-18T21:04:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretending the Nazis were somehow unique leads to an “it can’t happen here” mentality, which means we won’t figure it out until too late when it _does_ happen here (or somewhere). Nowhere did I say they were unique. Pretending that Nazis who committed atrocities were “human beings just like us” is incredibly inane. Mass murder has been acceptable in very few societies in modern history. Those that permitted and encouraged it did not involve people “just like us”. Very serious pathology was at work. You help prevent such things from happening again by stigmatizing the hell out of them - not by saying the equivalent of “oh well, people just act out sometimes…it could happen to anyone”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992.md?page=5)