# Historic re-enactors dressing up as Nazis at a private party. Is that kosher? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992 "2014-03-18T11:38:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/81 "2014-03-18T21:06:19Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I can only reiterate that the rationale most likely referred to the group’s normal activities, and not the dinner specifically. > > By way of further evidence, here’s the [original source, CityPages:](http://blogs.citypages.com/food/2014/03/gasthofs_nazi_photo_gasthof_zur_gemutlichkeit.php) > > As you can see, Boroom speaks about the party, then shifts to speaking about the nature of the group (the paragraph about background checks). I submit that the final paragraph is also about the nature of the group, and not the party, rather than Boroom circling back to talk about the party, and in a nonsensical fashion. 1. No, I see that City Pages quoted him in that order. We know that those are his words but we do not know what was edited out. You’re assuming items where gaps would be probably. 2. We only know what the article says. 3. If we are to assume, as you are, that there is no educational value per Boroom for wearing the uniforms during the party, then what is the reason to wear them? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/82 "2014-03-18T21:07:16Z")
> [@Anondragon2012](#): > > Americans are well known fanatics about re-enacting. > Particularely of German Armed forces 1933-1945. They are? > [@Anondragon2012](#): > > To come back to re-enactors, I would bet there are more true racist sitting with suits in Investment banks commenting behind doors. > Or even at black only or hispanic only parties, > Especially among Jewish only (the evil Aryan goyyyyyyyim) > Than among this group of re-enactors who are just nerdy memory lovers and actors. Umm, bankers behind closed door? More true racists amongst Jewish only? I’m beginning to smell something here. > [@Anondragon2012](#): > > It’s like Israel. Really the Jews probably don’t notice the irony that most of their ethnic beliefs are closely similar to National-Socialism. I dont oppose Israel Im just saying. Yeah, definately what I was smelling. ---
**Author:** ![Anondragon2012](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anondragon2012](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anondragon2012)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/83 "2014-03-18T21:20:38Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > They are? > Umm, bankers behind closed door? More true racists amongst Jewish only? I’m beginning to smell something here. > Yeah, definately what I was smelling. Haha if you think most racists are cross-dressing fools, not white-collar educated men who keep their beliefs private, you are deluded. I didn’t pick the banker profession because of its association with Jews, I picked it because its the elite and that’s where educated racists might be. I could aswell have picked lawyers, doctors, etc. I was making a point about racism. I think if most Jewish organizations such as ADL thought Nazis were only the stereotypical ones, they wouldnt be as efficient as they are. Your comment is typical though. Deviant thought of Israel not according to dogma thats it Im an antisemite. I am just a pragmatic thinker I dont view history in black and white. I do know quite a bit about National Socialism and I have friends in Israel. As an educated man I do see strong similarities between the two. And I dont necessarily see it as bad. The Jews have their own lebensraum and ethnic quest to follow, that’s fine with me. ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/84 "2014-03-18T21:26:27Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > They are? > Umm, bankers behind closed door? More true racists amongst Jewish only? I’m beginning to smell something here. > Yeah, definately what I was smelling. I smell what you smell and I second your motion. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/85 "2014-03-18T21:37:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Nowhere did I say they were unique. > > Pretending that Nazis who committed atrocities were “human beings just like us” is incredibly inane. > > Mass murder has been acceptable in very few societies in modern history. Those that permitted and encouraged it did not involve people “just like us”. Very serious pathology was at work. > > You help prevent such things from happening again by stigmatizing the hell out of them - not by saying the equivalent of “oh well, people just act out sometimes…it could happen to anyone”. I’m not trying to make Nazis look better, I’m making humans look worse. The Nazis were not a different species, or controlled by aliens, or inhabited by demons. They were people just like is, who chose to take part in an odious political ideology- just like we can. We all like to think off ourselves as thoughtful, kind, non-genocidal people. But the reality is that unless we are vigilant, we are at risk of becoming Nazis. Preventing these acts takes more than saying " don’t be evil." We need to continually examine our lives and our society, and build in checks and safety valves for when things start getting evil. ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/86 "2014-03-18T21:45:03Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Hey, maybe settle down on the personal rancor. Nothing personal about calling attention to logical error. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > It does. The post you directed at me, #51, only addressed the flags. It doesn’t take “substandard and unfathomable logic” to think you were making the flags a priority. If a swastika flag is offensive then I do not see how anything else with a swastika on it could reasonably be considered inoffensive. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > [World War II Historical Re-Enactment Society: About Us](http://worldwartwohrs.org/AboutUs.htm) > > Is there some reason, beyond the desire for RO, that you reject the concept of re-enactors as educators? What is RO? I would have to question someone myself before I could pass judgement on what he might have to offer as an educator. No reenactor who played Nazi roles would qualify. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > You mean they may have walked from the restaurant parking lot to the restaurant door in Nazi/German attire? I’m not shuddering with outrage here. I am. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > It’s necessary in this case for any harm to have been done, of any kind. If you think it’s offensive, bully for you. If no one was harmed, and no Nazi movement is gaining steam, it’s pure RO. Nothing’s at stake. What is at stake is the line separating appropriate tolerance from excessive tolerance, a line crossed whenever a Nazi armband is worn outside movies or theater roles. ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/87 "2014-03-18T21:51:17Z")
> [@Anondragon2012](#): > > Basically make the law like Germany & Austria is what you’re saying. No, that is not what I am saying. The rest of your post is just nauseating. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/88 "2014-03-18T21:59:41Z")
Why are the faces in all the pictures blurred? Surely, if they are harmless war reenactors, then they wouldn’t have anything to fear by having their pictures in the paper? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/89 "2014-03-18T22:43:17Z")
> [@WheatCat](#): > > I would have to question someone myself before I could pass judgement on what he might have to offer as an educator. No reenactor who played Nazi roles would qualify. Why not? History isn’t made just by the winners. Historical re-enactors can be very effective educators when they talk to groups (in character) explaining why and how they lived their lives. Why DID ordinary Germans join the Nazi Party and vote for Hitler and support the invasion of Russia? Somebody in character, explaining the incremental steps that led from Weimar to Nuremburg, could be incredibly compelling. The Nazis took evil to new extremes, but ordinary, fundamentally decent Germans put Hitler in power. If we don’t accept and understand that fact, how can we prevent another monster arising? ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/90 "2014-03-18T22:56:12Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Why not? > > History isn’t made just by the winners. Historical re-enactors can be very effective educators when they talk to groups (in character) explaining why and how they lived their lives. Why DID ordinary Germans join the Nazi Party and vote for Hitler and support the invasion of Russia? Somebody in character, explaining the incremental steps that led from Weimar to Nuremburg, could be incredibly compelling. > > The Nazis took evil to new extremes, but ordinary, fundamentally decent Germans put Hitler in power. If we don’t accept and understand that fact, how can we prevent another monster arising? I reject the premise that reenactors can be presumed able to speak with authority. I also reject the claim that anyone who went so far as to vote for them was decent. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/91 "2014-03-18T23:06:16Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > 1. No, I see that City Pages quoted him in that order. We know that those are his words but we do not know what was edited out. You’re assuming items where gaps would be probably. We don’t, but the article as written has a clear flow. The switch to speaking about the group is actually earlier than I said, at the point of “Outside of that night, members are involved in educational activities, weekend re-enactment events, and films.” After that line, everything in the article concerns the group itself: its vetting of members, and why it wears the costumes it wears. > [@stpauler](#): > > 1. We only know what the article says. Agreed. > [@stpauler](#): > > 1. If we are to assume, as you are, that there is no educational value per Boroom for wearing the uniforms during the party, then what is the reason to wear them? “Because they dress up like Germans from World War II, it’s cool to go to a German restaurant, eat German food, and drink German beer.” It’s a group event, they wear their group costumes. Would an SCA group, or a Star Wars group, do any differently? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/92 "2014-03-18T23:17:43Z")
> [@WheatCat](#): > > Nothing personal about calling attention to logical error. If you say so. > [@Wheatcat](#): > > If a swastika flag is offensive then I do not see how anything else with a swastika on it could reasonably be considered inoffensive. Those weren’t the terms you used: > [@](#): > > Did you look at the goddam swastika flags draped all over the place? It is not necessary to go to such an extreme for a goddam “offshoot”. How was I to know that the “extreme” was the swastika, as opposed to draping the room with the flags? I can’t read your mind. Now I know what you mean, and we can move on. > [@WheatCat](#): > > What is RO? [Recreational outrage.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=320298) > [@WheatCat](#): > > I would have to question someone myself before I could pass judgement on what he might have to offer as an educator. No reenactor who played Nazi roles would qualify. Keep them out of your classroom, then, I guess. To presume they have no educational value because they re-enact one particular side in a large, world-changing conflict seems baseless, but hey, if you’re a teacher, you don’t have to book them. > [@WheatCat](#): > > I am. That sounds exhausting. > [@WheatCat](#): > > What is at stake is the line separating appropriate tolerance from excessive tolerance, a line crossed whenever a Nazi armband is worn outside movies or theater roles. To recap: 1. No one was harmed. 2. There is no danger of future harm. _That’s_ excessive tolerance? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/93 "2014-03-18T23:21:14Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Why are the faces in all the pictures blurred? Surely, if they are harmless war reenactors, then they wouldn’t have anything to fear by having their pictures in the paper? You’d have to ask CityPages, they published the photo, not anyone affiliated with the group. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/94 "2014-03-18T23:38:27Z")
> [@WheatCat](#): > > I reject the premise that reenactors can be presumed able to speak with authority. I also reject the claim that anyone who went so far as to vote for them was decent. Even in the early 1930s, the Nazis received around a third of all votes; by the 1936 parliamentary elections, they received votes from more than 98 percent of all registered voters. (Not that they had much choice by '36, but still …) So basically you are asserting that there were almost no decent Germans. I think that’s a very radical and dangerous assertion, because it assumes that Germany in the 1930s was so very different and unlike any other country ever. Since they were so indecent and insane and abnormal, we don’t need to worry about the same thing happening in any decent and normal country, and there are no lessons to be learned from the rise of Hitler. On the contrary, I would argue that there are very significant lessons to be learned about how ordinary citizens allowed themselves to be led into tyranny and evil, and how propaganda and demagoguery resulted in atrocity. Whether it’s a re-enactor or the real deal (live or in recorded oral history, etc.), there is authority and value in _personalizing_ history. It wasn’t just faceless people voting for a monster; it was ordinary Johanns and Marias and Gunthers who saw in the Nazis a solution to economic hardship, political turmoil, and the psychological effects of Germany’s international decline. The folks who voted for Hitler in 1932 and 1933 were not voting for the Final Solution and plunging the continent into war and sixty million dead; that was the result, but not what they thought they were going to get. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/95 "2014-03-18T23:40:23Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If you’re going to do reenactments, somebody has to play the other side. If everyone takes your approach and refuses to portray the Germans, then the World War II Historical Re-Enactment Society becomes “Guys in Allied uniforms standing around”. My goodness. And we simply MUST re-enact WWII so there’s no choice. See people, these guys merely had dressing up as Nazis thrust upon them. Plus, their uniforms were pretty cool. So let’s quit getting so darn emotionally wrapped up about what Nazis did or didn’t do. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/96 "2014-03-18T23:44:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > My goodness. And we simply MUST re-enact WWII so there’s no choice. See people, these guys merely had dressing up as Nazis thrust upon them. Plus, their uniforms were pretty cool. So let’s quit getting so darn emotionally wrapped up about what Nazis did or didn’t do. That’s a brave stance, there, suggesting a hobby you don’t participate in, that hurts no one, that some people love doing, shouldn’t be practiced. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/97 "2014-03-18T23:50:02Z")
It shouldn’t be practiced by someone who isn’t a knob. The knobs are free to do whatever they want. I am not calling for it to be outlawed but it’s my prerogative to think some guy who dresses up as a Nazi on weekends and has Swastika Christmas parties is a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/98 "2014-03-18T23:56:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It shouldn’t be practiced by someone who isn’t a knob. The knobs are free to do whatever they want. I am not calling for it to be outlawed but it’s my prerogative to think some guy who dresses up as a Nazi on weekends and has Swastika Christmas parties is a jackass. It certainly is. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/99 "2014-03-19T00:01:21Z")
Right, so what exactly are you arguing for? Maybe I missed someone calling for it’s outlaw. You seem to be arguing that people are silly for being outraged or annoyed by this. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/100 "2014-03-19T00:02:01Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Right, so what exactly are you arguing for? Maybe I missed someone calling for it’s outlaw. You seem to be arguing that people are silly for being outraged or annoyed by this. That is my position. It’s their right, of course, but it is silly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992.md?page=6)