# Historic re-enactors dressing up as Nazis at a private party. Is that kosher? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992 "2014-03-18T11:38:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/161 "2014-03-19T15:52:27Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Doncha just hate it when people make people who dress up as Nazis look bad? If it’s done through inaccurate or deceptive means, yes. That applies to anyone, though, be it [women adding female artists to wikipedia](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=714810&highlight=artist), or these people in Minnesota. Everyone’s entitled to a fair shake. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/162 "2014-03-19T15:54:56Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If it’s done through inaccurate or deceptive means, yes. That applies to anyone, though, be it [women adding female artists to wikipedia](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=714810&highlight=artist), or these people in Minnesota. Everyone’s entitled to a fair shake. Including the pedophile re-enactors in my scenario above? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/163 "2014-03-19T15:58:36Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Including the pedophile re-enactors in my scenario above? That’s not a great analogy, because pedophilia is a mental illness, not a voluntary political belief, but yes, if someone started a thread attacking that group in an inaccurate or deceptive manner, I’d defend them. Everyone’s entitled to a fair shake; we’re only accountable for what we do and say. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/164 "2014-03-19T16:00:31Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That’s not a great analogy, because pedophilia is a mental illness, not a voluntary political belief, but yes, if someone started a thread attacking that group in an inaccurate or deceptive manner, I’d defend them. Everyone’s entitled to a fair shake; we’re only accountable for what we do and say. I guess we’ll have to wait for genocide to be added to DSMVI then. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/165 "2014-03-19T16:04:32Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I guess we’ll have to wait for genocide to be added to DSMVI then. It wouldn’t make it acceptable to criticize the group in an inaccurate or deceptive way, if course. There are other issues with the analogy, but that basic point - that it’s not ok to use incorrect or deceptive means to attack people you don’t like - applies to both scenarios. The idea that the perpetrators of the Holocaust were mentally ill has already been addressed in this thread; sadly, it’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/166 "2014-03-19T16:21:38Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It wouldn’t make it acceptable to criticize the group in an inaccurate or deceptive way, if course. There are other issues with the analogy, but that basic point - that it’s not ok to use incorrect or deceptive means to attack people you don’t like - applies to both scenarios. > > The idea that the perpetrators of the Holocaust were mentally ill has already been addressed in this thread; sadly, it’s not true. Let’s just say your ideas of right and wrong are out of line with mine. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/167 "2014-03-19T16:25:36Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Let’s just say your ideas of right and wrong are out of line with mine. Evidently so. My deontological morals require a violation of the rights of others, for an act to be wrong. Consequentialist morals require harmful consequences to judge an act as wrong. I’m curious what moral system causes you to label this dinner as being wrong…virtue ethics, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/168 "2014-03-19T16:32:22Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Evidently so. My deontological morals require a violation of the rights of others, for an act to be wrong. Consequentialist morals require harmful consequences to judge an act as wrong. I’m curious what moral system causes you to label this dinner as being wrong…virtue ethics, maybe? Mine eschews the flowery prose of deontological obfuscations and goes straight to the heart of “don’t be a jerk” mindset. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/169 "2014-03-19T16:37:53Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Mine eschews the flowery prose of deontological obfuscations and goes straight to the heart of “don’t be a jerk” mindset. Who are these people being jerks to? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/170 "2014-03-19T16:46:04Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Mine eschews the flowery prose of deontological obfuscations and goes straight to the heart of “don’t be a jerk” mindset. So…virtue ethics, then? ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/171 "2014-03-19T16:58:06Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > :dubious: > > None? Even a theme night on “come as an historic villian”? > > Or a re-enactors event? No, no, and none. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/172 "2014-03-19T17:01:51Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > So…virtue ethics, then? Far worse crimes have been commited in the name of virtue ethics than questioning why a group of grown men seemingly well aware of history gathered in full Nazi regalia for regular private dinners. At least [one page on their site](http://www.6ssnord.com/index.html) makes me wonder if they are not on some level appologists (you’ll have to click through the clever initial page warning of being reported to the Gestapo): > [@](#): > > Brave and honorable men from all over Germany joined the Foreign Volunteers against the Bolshevik expansionists into the Baltic States, Poland and Finland who were not allowed to enlist in the German Army since they were not citizens, but could enlist in the Waffen-SS. Most of these soldiers fought on the front lines for the duration of the war and were unaware of what was being carried out by the echelons of the Allgemeine-SS (General-SS). Yet, following the Nuremburg trials, they had their honors stripped away, and were denied the pensions given to their Army counterparts whom they had fought alongside. It is in their honor that we depict the Waffen-SS. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/173 "2014-03-19T17:04:44Z")
You know who else liked deontological ethics? ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/174 "2014-03-19T17:09:51Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It’s dangerous because it gives you a false sense of security. There’s no way all Germans were psychopaths between 1936 and 1945. They were, indeed, regular people. And regular people, after you’ve been properly demonized by the powers that be, will hang you at the nearest lampost with a big grin on their face. It’s not like examples of such are lacking, in all times and in all places. Regular people who become demonized have become psychopathic the way I see it. And it was close enough to 100% in the German case to make it appropriate to say “all”. Even the sainted Stauffenberg gave the Nazis his best effort until it was clear Germany was losing the war. And yes, that makes him a psychopath, all decked out in his too little, too late opportunist’s finery. > [@clairobscur](#): > > What is more dangerous is believing that it can’t happen anywhere. There are so many other threats so much greater than the potential Nazification of any Western country that we need not spend too much time worrying about the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Anondragon2012](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anondragon2012](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anondragon2012)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/175 "2014-03-19T17:14:09Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Absolute outrage at the semblance of Nazism is much like absolute support for it: > > Both are founded in emotion, and neither side cares for nuance. > > Don’t waste your time fellas, slash2k laid it out perfectly and it fell on deaf ears. And I joined this forum because back years ago the level of debate was much higher and included these nuances. I even have like 10 threads saved from back in the day because they were so good. The fact is WW2 has been too politicized especially post-war to be debated intelligently by most of the masses. I am European and I remember talking with my grandparents who lived through the war and were adults in the 50s-60s. They said that 99% of what is said about WW2 today…Holocaust documentaries, films non-stop, war documentaries, etc etc…DID NOT EXIST. That stuff came in the 1970s and the 80s… Back in the 60s…The people in general were much more nuanced about WW2 because it happened so recently. It was like if in 2014 you talk about the Gulf war or Afghanistan war. The fact is…The media has made Nazism an obsession for the average couch potatoe today. Just look at every thread that pops up…For example this one…Has nothing to do with Nazism, rise of Nazis, etc… **Its really a legal issue**. But here you go you got dozens of posts about “internet experts” who know all about Hitler’s left testicle, know all about the mindset of the Germans in 1930 as if they were Germans themselves.\*\* Fact is Nazism lasted 12 years…Thats nothing really in the course of total history. Will be forgotten as minor event in 50-100 years. Only reason its so cared about is twofolds 1) Hitler knocked on the chosen people 2) USA became superpower through WW2.\*\* But reality is that Hitler’’ genocide was nothing to genocides that came before, especially a recently commited one (Stalin’s holodomor and purges aswell as the Bolschevik takeover of Russia) or later ones (Mao’s great leap forward) all of which dwarf the number of deaths in concentration camps. Completely occulting the crimes their own state commited and viewing the whole period as a gigantic black vs. white battle. Lmao what ignorance… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/176 "2014-03-19T17:15:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Far worse crimes have been commited in the name of virtue ethics than questioning why a group of grown men seemingly well aware of history gathered in full Nazi regalia for regular private dinners. Yeesh…please show me where I equated **stpauler** ’s posts to “crimes”, or told him or her that he or she could not question why the groups do what they do. If he or she is going to say that the dinner was morally wrong, I don’t think it’s out of line to ask on what principles that conclusion was reached, do you? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > At least [one page on their site](http://www.6ssnord.com/index.html) makes me wonder if they are not on some level appologists (you’ll have to click through the clever initial page warning of being reported to the Gestapo): Wonder away, at your leisure. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/177 "2014-03-19T17:17:45Z")
> [@Anondragon2012](#): > > And I joined this forum because back years ago the level of debate was much higher and included these nuances. I even have like 10 threads saved from back in the day because they were so good. What was your login name back then? ---
**Author:** ![WheatCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@WheatCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WheatCat)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/178 "2014-03-19T17:21:46Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > They had a crippling agricultural crisis in the early '30s, and there wasn’t any public influence to be had on policy in Germany after 1934 (abolition of parliaments), Japan after 1932 (assassination of Prime Minister Inukai, beginning of military rule), or Italy after 1926 (abolition of elections, Mussolini given title “head of government”). The 1930s USSR famine came years after the Western economic crash, and the USSR population was politically impotent even before the end of the Civil War, actually. They enjoyed only one free political act 1918- ca.1987, that being the 1917 election of the Constituent Assembly, which was dismissed at its first meeting (by Trotsky, who used the occasion for his famous phrase “into the dustbin of history”). Now, I think I have made my position clear, I think I have been effective, I am tiring of this thread, and may not be interested enough to continue replying. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/179 "2014-03-19T17:26:15Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Doncha just hate it when people make people who dress up as Nazis look bad? Then please let me know what groups it is acceptable to dress like when you’re in a WWII re-enactment group. It sure seems to me that it would be hard to have a group based around WWII and not have Germans. ---
**Author:** ![Anondragon2012](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anondragon2012](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anondragon2012)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992/180 "2014-03-19T17:34:20Z")
> [@WheatCat](#): > > Regular people who become demonized have become psychopathic the way I see it. > > And it was close enough to 100% in the German case to make it appropriate to say “all”. Even the sainted Stauffenberg gave the Nazis his best effort until it was clear Germany was losing the war. And yes, that makes him a psychopath, all decked out in his too little, too late opportunist’s finery. The only psychopathy I see is from people who would readily believe such selective views of history and preach it on online forums like dogma. The sad thing is that such views about Nazism, WW2, etc… Have made it so that really no lesson at all were learned from these conflicts. I just love this hypocrisy of focusing so much on evil Nazis, when pretty much every European nation including the UK at the time had extremely large colonial Empires dominating locals while Germany had none. And thats just one example, but guys like Wheatcat will never criticize that…Because thats not dogma you see. If an Englishman conquers territory for the British Empire and enslave a million Indian, he is just enlightening them with English civilization. If German votes for Hitler he is a psychopathic maniac. Anyway enough on this subject. What can we do, the world is as it is. People need their villain and ridiculous history, and mass killings and wars will keep happening for exactly same reasons as before. > [@CarnalK](#): > > What was your login name back then? Unfortunately stopped using the email associated with the account, so I lost it 🙂 But I didn’t really post. I mostly read the threads. Really there was some amazing stuff back in the day. There is still…But alot more manichean people IMO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historic-re-enactors-dressing-up-as-nazis-at-a-private-party-is-that-kosher/683992.md?page=10)