# Historical figures who'd totally go to jail if they lived today. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114 "2015-04-08T12:44:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/21 "2015-04-09T03:22:44Z")
Marion Zimmer Bradley ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/22 "2015-04-09T04:24:51Z")
Many of the great men of the bible were murderers. Samson was a serial killer who killed 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. Elijah killed 450 for worshiping an inferior god. David went out to kill 100 Philistines and return with their foreskins to purchase his bride from Saul, but God was with him so he was able to pay double. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/23 "2015-04-09T05:51:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Marion Zimmer Bradley Ugh. Her poor daughter. That whole thing\* is just beyond horrific. I would say Marquis de Sade. I’m no prude and indeed do enjoy some lite BDSM, but Smithsonian Magazine had a really interesting article about him that showed he was a VERY unpleasant guy. \*I was originally going to write ‘story’ but then I thought that it would sound like I didn’t believe the daughter. I couldn’t pick a good word. Event? Events? Interactions? Mishegoss? I used thing as just the only word that I could think of. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/24 "2015-04-09T05:59:31Z")
> [@BrassyPhrase](#): > > I would say Marquis de Sade. I’m no prude and indeed do enjoy some lite BDSM, but Smithsonian Magazine had a really interesting article about him that showed he was a VERY unpleasant guy. But he actually was sent to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/25 "2015-04-09T06:14:02Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Lincoln. Imagine any POTUS today getting away with half the stuff he pulled. Do tell? \ ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/26 "2015-04-09T12:16:27Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Do tell? > > \ For starters, he ordered the first military draft, despite having no legal authority to do so. Imagine if Obama issued an executive order that every 18-year-old male had to enlist in the military so we would be ready to fight ISIS. He’d be impeached & removed before the ink dried on his signature. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/27 "2015-04-09T13:05:16Z")
Jim Bowie et al. would, at the very least, be in jail for treason. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/28 "2015-04-09T13:40:02Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > For starters, he ordered the first military draft, despite having no legal authority to do so. Imagine if Obama issued an executive order that every 18-year-old male had to enlist in the military so we would be ready to fight ISIS. He’d be impeached & removed before the ink dried on his signature. Lincoln was given the authority to draft soldiers by the Militia Act of 1862 and the Enrollment Act of 1863, both of which were enacted by Congress. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/29 "2015-04-09T13:46:57Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > For starters, he ordered the first military draft, despite having no legal authority to do so. Imagine if Obama issued an executive order that every 18-year-old male had to enlist in the military so we would be ready to fight ISIS. He’d be impeached & removed before the ink dried on his signature. That to some degree. But more overthrowing Habeas Corpus, declaring Marshall Law (allowing protestors and those against the war to be arrested), one could even argue declaring war basically on his own. He seriously cut the judicial and legislative branches out of the more serious decisions and actions he took and a lot of the rest was more after the fact than operating as the Constitution requires. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/30 "2015-04-09T14:11:46Z")
What about Henry VII? As far as I know, he’s the last king to rule be right of conquest (and a bar sinister Lancastrian connection that wasn’t very close). He wasn’t in any sense that heir apparent. Would he just go to prison as an assassin now? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/31 "2015-04-09T14:30:48Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > declaring Marshall Law ( Martial law… as in military law. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/32 "2015-04-09T17:02:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Martial law… as in military law. No, he declared [Marshall Law](http://fantasminhacamarada.deviantart.com/art/Marshall-Law-Oil-Painting-370696623)! As in “Marshall Law is gonna kick all your asses, wooooooo!” ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/33 "2015-04-09T17:16:51Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > What about Henry VII? As far as I know, he’s the last king to rule be right of conquest (and a bar sinister Lancastrian connection that wasn’t very close). He wasn’t in any sense that heir apparent. Would he just go to prison as an assassin now? Only if his side lost. Coups d’etat still happen in the world today with the winners becoming heads of state. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/34 "2015-04-09T18:05:09Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > That to some degree. But more overthrowing Habeas Corpus, declaring Marshall Law (allowing protestors and those against the war to be arrested), one could even argue declaring war basically on his own. He seriously cut the judicial and legislative branches out of the more serious decisions and actions he took and a lot of the rest was more after the fact than operating as the Constitution requires. Taking your points one at a time, you’re wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. Lincoln did not “overthrow” habeas corpus. He temporarily suspended it in some areas. Which the Constitution explicitly allows during a rebellion. Congress was not in session at the time but it later retroactively enacting legislation supporting Lincoln’s authority. Congress had enacted legislation giving Lincoln the power to declare martial law when he did so in 1863. It was the Confederacy which declared war on the United States, so Lincoln had no part in that decision. Lincoln was always careful to work with Congress and the courts throughout the war, including in the examples I gave above. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/35 "2015-04-09T18:16:39Z")
I imagine Andrew Jackson wouldn’t last long in the modern day before he would be thrown in the clink. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/36 "2015-04-09T21:42:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I imagine Andrew Jackson wouldn’t last long in the modern day before he would be thrown in the clink. “Doper Bump has made his decision- now let him enforce it.” ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/37 "2015-04-09T22:53:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think Hemingway ran off to the Spanish Civil War and did _something_ on one side or another. > > The Eagle Squadron pilots who flew for England. The Lafayette Esquadrille who flew for Fance. The Flying Tigers who flew for China. The American Brigade who fought against Franco. The 1st American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers) was a US government operation. Pilots were recruited from active duty aviators and allowed to resign to go fight. They were formed under presidential orders. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/38 "2015-04-09T23:06:52Z")
Wagner might not go to jail, but he’d be poisonous in the eyes of pretty much everyone due to his rabid anti-Semitism. True, it’s wrong to judge historical figures by modern standards, but that guy was a piece of work even for his own time - Mendelssohn would probably get a restraining order on him. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/39 "2015-04-10T01:19:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Taking your points one at a time, you’re wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. > > Lincoln did not “overthrow” habeas corpus. He temporarily suspended it in some areas. Which the Constitution explicitly allows during a rebellion. Congress was not in session at the time but it later retroactively enacting legislation supporting Lincoln’s authority. But certainly you (and all Americans, and hell, all members of the British Commonwealth) shudder at the thought of a suspension of habeas corpus. Anyway, doesn’t Lincoln fit the parameters of the OP? If he pulled that _today,_ wouldn’t it be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/40 "2015-04-10T01:28:44Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > But certainly you (and all Americans, and hell, all members of the British Commonwealth) shudder at the thought of a suspension of habeas corpus. Anyway, doesn’t Lincoln fit the parameters of the OP? If he pulled that _today,_ wouldn’t it be illegal? The US Constitution Article 1 section 9 says: “The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” To me the US Civil War qualifies as a case of rebellion. So suspending it was hardly illegal – whether or not it might have been wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114.md?page=3)