# Historical figures who'd totally go to jail if they lived today. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114 "2015-04-08T12:44:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/61 "2015-04-14T19:03:09Z")
I suspect Harald “Hardrada” would _totally_ be incarcerated in a Supermax prision were he alive today - where he would no doubt rule the hard-cases inside. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/62 "2015-04-14T20:19:25Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Brain fart. :smack: > > Surprised if I disagree? If it wasn’t for the court order from Taney would it ever have gone to Congress? And what good would it do any President today to get a rubber stamp after the fact? OK – maybe Reagan could have pulled it off; but other than him? > > Sorry - I’ve read all the stuff from the Lincoln apologists and I’m not buying. Legal or not, it was a bad move and set a bad precedent. If I were living during the time, I’d have been against him, because I like the Constitution more than Lincoln. Relevant L&O:CI quote: ``` Ron Carver: So your answer is to conspire to suspend his right of habeas corpus? Judge Freeman: Get off your high-horse, Mr. Carver, even Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. Ron Carver: Am I supposed to fall to my knees at the mention of the "Great Emancipator?" Even great men go too far, your honor. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/63 "2015-04-14T20:54:58Z")
Speaking of American political figures - I doubt these days whether anyone would get away with only a $300 fine for viciously beating a US Senator right in the Senate chamber because they didn’t like his speech. 😉 > **[Preston Brooks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Brooks)** > > Preston Smith Brooks (August 5, 1819 – January 27, 1857) was an American slaveowner, politician, and member of the U.S. House of Representatives from South Carolina, serving from 1853 until his resignation in July 1856 and again from August 1856 until his death. > A member of the Democratic Party, Brooks was a strong advocate of slavery and states' rights to enforce slavery nationally. He is most remembered for his May 22, 1856, attack upon abolitionist and Republican Senator Charles Sumner, who... > [@](#): > > Brooks confronted Sumner, who was seated at his desk, writing letters. He said, “Mr. Sumner, I have read your speech twice over carefully. It is a libel on South Carolina, and Mr. Butler, who is a relative of mine.” As Sumner began to stand up, Brooks hit Sumner over the head several times with his cane, made of thick gutta-percha with a gold head. Sumner was trapped under the heavy desk (which was bolted to the floor), but Brooks continued to strike Sumner until Sumner wrenched the desk from the floor in an attempt to escape.[15] By this time, Sumner was blinded by his own blood. He staggered up the aisle and collapsed unconscious.[16] Senator John Crittenden, Representative Ambrose Murray and others attempted to restrain Brooks before he killed Sumner, but were blocked by Keitt who brandished a pistol, and shouted at the onlookers to leave Brooks and Sumner alone.[17][18][19] Brooks continued beating Sumner until the cane broke, then quietly left the chamber with Keitt and Edmundson.[20] > > Sumner suffered head trauma that would cause him chronic pain and symptoms consistent with what would now be called traumatic brain injury and post-traumatic stress disorder, and spent three years convalescing before returning to his Senate seat. He suffered chronic pain and debilitation for the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/64 "2015-04-14T21:50:33Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I suspect Harald “Hardrada” would _totally_ be incarcerated in a Supermax prision were he alive today - where he would no doubt rule the hard-cases inside. 😃 Harald Hardrara was killed at Stamford Bridge, so I’m not sure that he really fits. I thought we were talking about people who escaped punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/65 "2015-04-14T21:54:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Harald Hardrara was killed at Stamford Bridge, so I’m not sure that he really fits. I thought we were talking about people who escaped punishment. Not sure “death in battle” is a form of judicial punishment, exactly … ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/66 "2015-04-14T22:40:53Z")
Aaron Burr. Most Veeps don’t kill people while in office any more. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/67 "2015-04-14T23:16:03Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Of course, if you were a Roman Emperor, impeachment and non-violent removal from office wasn’t really an option. Yeah, but per the OP, this is a _modern-day_ Caligula. We have to gloss over the fact that there isn’t a Roman Empire in the 21st century, and imagine that somehow Caligula gains political power in the known structure of the 21st century and still does what he may have done in the 1st century. I do like the idea of a President Caligula ordering that section 16 of the crowd at Nationals Park be thrown to the lions, and his 21st-century aides being like “WTF?” and promptly locking him away in the looney bin rather than the depressing reality of his 1st century aides making it so. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/68 "2015-04-15T05:01:49Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Yeah, but per the OP, this is a _modern-day_ Caligula. We have to gloss over the fact that there isn’t a Roman Empire in the 21st century, and imagine that somehow Caligula gains political power in the known structure of the 21st century and still does what he may have done in the 1st century. Sure. Just pointing out that he didn’t exactly get away with his antics it in the 1st either. The comeuppance was just of the, you know, stabbier and more extra-legal sort. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/69 "2015-04-15T05:25:58Z")
While we’re on the subject of Roman Emperors, Theodosius I probably deserves a mention for the [“oops, I seem to have ordered the massacre of 7,000 race fans in Thessalonica”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Thessalonica) incident. Consequences? Well, he felt really bad about it, and ended up grovelling a bit before Ambrose, the bishop of Milan, to save his soul. That’s about it. No stabbing. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/70 "2015-04-15T13:58:17Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Preston Brooks. > > Then again, the way politics runs now, he’d get a GoFundMe and talk-show. The same could probably be said for Alcibiades. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/71 "2015-04-15T14:06:51Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > That photo with Carroll is photoshopped. Sorry I can’t tell–is this a joke? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/72 "2015-04-15T14:13:15Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > What about William of Orange? He arrived with an army, prepared to battle for the crown. The previous king fled without much of a fight, but I think it still counts. And he had no claim of his own to the throne, just an invitation from Parliament. The invitation from Parliament trumped everything else. Don’t forget that Charles II (and hence James) only became king because Parliament had invited him back after the collapse of the Commonwealth. Also, FWIW, William, as their nephew, had been the nearest to a male heir (until the Old Pretender was born to James’s Catholic second wife), which was perhaps one of the reasons why James’s daughter had been married to him. And, of course, see the comments above on Henry VII - it was a coup d’etat, but a parliamentary one and retrospectively legalised by the Bill of Rights. _Treason never prospers - What’s the reason? If it prosper, None dare call it treason_ ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/73 "2015-04-15T18:19:30Z")
If modern-day Lincoln suspended habeas corpus under the same conditions (a civil war, Congress not in session) nothing would happen. No one has been or will be prosecuted for torture, or the collection of mass data on every American without warrants. If you do it to “keep America safe,” you’re going to get away with it–whatever the merits of your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/74 "2015-04-15T18:33:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Not sure “death in battle” is a form of judicial punishment, exactly … Well, no. But the thing about being dead is that you can’t go to prison. 😃 Hardrada probably would have been stuffed in some dungeon if he hadn’t been killed, is the point. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/75 "2015-04-15T18:39:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, no. But the thing about being dead is that you can’t go to prison. 😃 Hardrada probably would have been stuffed in some dungeon if he hadn’t been killed, is the point. Doesn’t that same objection apply to many of the suggestions above? Can’t send Caligula to jail after sticking eight Praetorian swords through him, either. 😃 Anyway, I was thinking more about Harold’s career prior to invading England - everywhere he went, he was a successful criminal, if his saga is to be believed (until he went that one step too far … ) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/76 "2015-04-15T20:02:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hardrada probably would have been stuffed in some dungeon if he hadn’t been killed, is the point. Hardrada would have been killed if he hadn’t been killed. What would be the benefit in keeping Hardrada around if he had survived the battle? You’d just be creating the possibility that opponents of your reign would free him and use him as a rallying point against you. (As it was, even with both Hardrada and Harold dead, William still had to deal with several claimants challenging his rule.) ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/77 "2015-04-21T22:41:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. It would, too, because there’s no civil war going on today. It would also be illegal for George Washington to own slaves today. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/78 "2015-04-21T22:55:31Z")
I think we just take it as read that conditions are as they were when he did it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/79 "2015-04-21T23:03:14Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > It would, too, because there’s no civil war going on today. It would also be illegal for George Washington to own slaves today. That’s a bit like saying that Aaron Burr wouldn’t be arrested for killing Alexander Hamilton today, because Hamilton died in 1804. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114/80 "2015-04-22T15:33:07Z")
Jesus Christ would have been guilty of, at the very least, disorderly conduct for creating a ruckus at the ancient Temple. > [@Matthew 21:12 (New International Version)](#): > > Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. Since it was likely his first criminal offense (under secular, Western law, that is), he’d have probably gotten probation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whod-totally-go-to-jail-if-they-lived-today/717114.md?page=5)