# Historical figures whose fictionalized versions have surpassed them in importance **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 3, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293 "2014-07-03T19:39:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/21 "2014-07-03T21:46:46Z")
Gotta second Vlad Tepes. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/22 "2014-07-03T21:50:34Z")
Hercule-Savinien Cyrano de Bergerac ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/23 "2014-07-03T22:04:10Z")
On a much smaller scale, I’m guessing the few people who are aware of the careers of U.S. Senators Owen Brewster and Homer Ferguson are indebted to their supremely unflattering portrayals in the films **The Aviator** (Alan Alda) and **Tucker: The Man and His Dream** (Lloyd Bridges), where they are depicted as horribly corrupt and hypocritical political figures standing in the way of progress and innovation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/24 "2014-07-03T22:09:59Z")
> [@MovieMogul](#): > > On a much smaller scale, I’m guessing the few people who are aware of the careers of U.S. Senators Owen Brewster and Homer Ferguson are indebted to their supremely unflattering portrayals in the films **The Aviator** (Alan Alda) and **Tucker: The Man and His Dream** (Lloyd Bridges), where they are depicted as horribly corrupt and hypocritical political figures standing in the way of progress and innovation. My original source of them was some famous journalist named Anderson, whose first name I forget. He wrote a syndicated muckracker style column called the Washington Merry Go Round. Before he did that he worked for Drew Pearson, who did the same thing. His portrayal of Brewster and Ferguson was not even as glamorized as The Aviator. He thought they were thoroughly corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/25 "2014-07-03T22:43:00Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Jesus. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > Mary. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Joseph…! Don’t swear! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/26 "2014-07-03T22:51:35Z")
Jesse James, Billy The Kid. Murdering, 2-Bit punk-asses turned into folk heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/27 "2014-07-03T22:57:44Z")
Joan of Arc [Lope de Aguirre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lope_de_Aguirre) Pocahontas Geronimo ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/28 "2014-07-03T23:01:42Z")
Bonnie and Clyde. The Jamaican 1988 Winter Olympics bobsledding team. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/29 "2014-07-03T23:03:21Z")
I’m having a hard time thinking of any historical figures who _haven’t_ been surpassed by their fictionalized versions. Martin van Buren, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/30 "2014-07-03T23:44:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m having a hard time thinking of any historical figures who _haven’t_ been surpassed by their fictionalized versions. Martin van Buren, maybe? Anyone who had a truly great influence on the course of history could never be surprassed. Hitler, for example. Not to godwinize the thread or anything \>\_\< That being said, a lot of people are just throwing names out without any justification or works of fiction that they think are particularly notable or influential, so I’m a little underwhelmed by the responses so far. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/31 "2014-07-04T00:27:27Z")
[Dr. Joseph Bell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bell), said to be the inspiration for Sherlock Holmes. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/32 "2014-07-04T00:34:58Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The Marquis de Sade (got a lot more freaky-deaky action in fiction than he probably ever got in life) > > Giacomo Casanova Casanova’s fame rests upon his own autobiography (which at least claims not to be fiction). de Sade’s fame rests on fiction that he wrote himself. AFAIK, these fictions are not _about_ himself, although they certainly reveal a lot about his sexual fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/33 "2014-07-04T01:13:38Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > That being said, a lot of people are just throwing names out without any justification or works of fiction that they think are particularly notable or influential, so I’m a little underwhelmed by the responses so far. I think the idea is that the people themselves might just be a footnote in history if someone had not fictionalized them. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > **Eleanor of Aquitaine** > She was married to a king of France, and a king of England, and was the mother of two of England’s kings, and a powerful woman in the early middle ages, but how many people from the early middle ages can you name? People know of her because of _The Lion in Winter_. > > **Richard III** > He ruled England for a mere three years, and had no lasting legacy, other than perhaps being the last monarch to lose his kingdom in battle. He is famous because Shakespeare turned him into a great villain, and then later, other people tried to clean up his memory, notably in one of the best-selling mystery novels ever, _The Daughter of Time_. > > **whoever committed the “Jack the Ripper” crimes** > The number of works of fiction devoted to JTR is too many to list, but Robert Bloch, who wrote Psycho also wrote _Night of the Ripper_, there are two separate movies where Sherlock Holmes takes him on, and he inspired episodes of _The Night Stalker_, _Star Trek_, and _Fantasy Island_. People have written books suggesting he was a prince, a famous painter, an American doctor, and a conspiracy of the masons. Yet, I’ll bet if people were gathered in the land of the dead, and someone said “OK, who was Jack the Ripper,” some guy would raise his hand, and no one would recognize him. > > **Anna “(fake) Anastasia” Anderson** > She was a suicidal Polish commoner who convinced much of Paris, that she was a Russian princess who survived a massacre. However, a private detective found her out and debunked her almost immediately. Then someone got the idea to write a play, which a much more interesting ending that suggested that she was infact the princess whose name means “resurrection.” Ingrid Bergman won an Oscar, and she became the darling of New York, convincing more and more people on the strength of the fictional character they knew more than they knew her. Even after DNA and a skeleton in the Russian forest proved her wrong, people still make movies. > > **the Buddha** > Herman Hesse wrote a book, and millions of westerners decided they wanted to convert to a religion they really knew nothing about. > > **Rasputin** , **Nero** , **Caligula** , > can you name one "fact about any of these men that you can cite? look up the fact, and you’ll find it came from a work of fiction, and is probably debunked on [snopes.com](http://snopes.com). > > **Joseph (Elephant Man) Merrick** > There’s a play about him, and a movie by David Lynch. Both came out in the 1980s. John Hurt played him in the movie. Did you know he built that paper cathedral from a mail-order kit? It’s still impressive, but much less so than the way it is presented. Did you know he actually made a lot of money working sideshows? most people think he was abused, because that’s what happened in both works of fiction, because it makes more sense for him to come up in the world from working a carnival, to living in a clean hospital, but he was studied and prodded, and an object of curiosity in the hospital, and for less in exchange. But at any rate, who had even heard of him before the 1980s. He was essentially as forgotten as the next Victorian sideshow act, but now he’s famous because of fictional accounts. > > **Antonio Salieri** > He was one name on a list of official directors of the opera, and composers laureate. Only people who studied music at universities knew of him, but since the fictionalized version of him in _Amadeus_, he is now nearly as famous as Mozart himself. For the wrong reasons, though. It’s worth noting that Peter Shaffer cribbed his idea for _Amadeus_ from Alexander Pushkin, who wrote the “little tragedy” of Mozart and Salieri six years after Salieri’s death. It was pretty much forgotten, though. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/34 "2014-07-04T01:25:22Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > That being said, a lot of people are just throwing names out without any justification or works of fiction that they think are particularly notable or influential, so I’m a little underwhelmed by the responses so far. Plus it is being taken as an easy opportunity to take a shot at putting down notable \*legendary \*figures, especially from the world of religion. Which brings up that I would say there is a difference between a specifically authored fictional retelling of a historic figure’s life and a popular legend having grown around the person. Sometimes of course the actual fiction and the popular legend work hand in hand (e.g. Parson Weems and George Washington’s cherry tree; any number of Wild West figures), but sometimes they are in conflict (e.g. Eva Perón vs. Evita). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/35 "2014-07-04T01:37:42Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Rasputin, Nero, Caligula, > can you name one "fact about any of these men that you can cite? look up the fact, and you’ll find it came from a work of fiction, and is probably debunked on [snopes.com](http://snopes.com). One “fact” that many people think they know about Rasputin is the story of his death and how it took several attempts to kill him. But that’s almost certainly not true. The official report says that Rasputin was shot and died and his body was then thrown in the river - a very straightforward murder that went according to plan. But Prince Felix Yusupov was one of the conspirators who was present. He was lucky and was able to escape Russia when the communists took over. He spent the rest of his life in exile (he lived until 1967) essentially living as a guest with other people. Yusupov must have felt he needed to be entertaining and the story of Rasputin’s murder was the most exciting story he had to tell. And as the decades passed the story kept growing more exciting. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/36 "2014-07-04T01:40:48Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > A couple of others off the top of my head: > Betsy Ross I dunno, she’s not really a major figure even in popular imagination. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/37 "2014-07-04T01:42:38Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Plus it is being taken as an easy opportunity to take a shot at putting down notable \*legendary \*figures, especially from the world of religion. Well, Jesus was probably a real historical figure. I know there are contrary theories, but it’s hard to imagine how Christianity could have gotten started if the first generation of Christians did not at least remember him. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/38 "2014-07-04T01:44:14Z")
Eva Peron was a jumped up whore who ripped off her ignorant followers to a horrific extent, right up there in the history books. Don’t ask me for ‘cites’. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/39 "2014-07-04T01:53:15Z")
Ebeneezer Cooke. He’s an obscure 18th century poet who is know for a single poem. John Barth took it as the basis for his novel **The Sot-Weed Factor** ; most people who read the novel don’t realize that Cooke was a real person. The book is often cited as one of the best American novels of the 20th century. It’s possible that people know the most about the Prince Regent of England in the early 19th century from **Blackadder**. Jake LaMotta is known from **Raging Bull** Susan Alexander Kane in **Citizen Kane** is what most people know Marion Davies as being the model for. Davies’s films are not often available, so the character is considered to be far more a representation that it really is; in fact, the character was written to be the _opposite_ of Davies. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/40 "2014-07-04T02:03:32Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It’s possible that people know the most about the Prince Regent of England in the early 19th century from **Blackadder**. Possibly in the United States that might be true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293.md?page=3)