# Historical figures whose fictionalized versions have surpassed them in importance **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 3, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293 "2014-07-03T19:39:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/41 "2014-07-04T02:06:21Z")
**Allison DuBois** She’s nothing like the character on _Medium_. She’d written a book before the show came out, and so some people think the episodes were each based on a real case of hers, but nothing could be further from the truth, and the Phoenix police have gone on record as saying she’s never helped them. She’s also a rightwing nutjob who brags about carrying a gun (you’d think she’d worry about killing someone, since she believes in ghosts, but whatever), and claims that because she can talk to the dead she knows there are no innocent people on death rows. She can’t open her mouth without saying something wacko. I once heard someone call her “the thinking man’s Jenny McCarthy.” I’m not sure if I quite follow that, but she’s got lots of crazy where Jenny McCarthy has plain old dumb; they have in common the fact that you hate them more each time you hear them say something. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/42 "2014-07-04T02:08:26Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I think the idea is that the people themselves might just be a footnote in history if someone had not fictionalized them. > > > [@](#): > > > > … > > > > the Buddha > > Herman Hesse wrote a book, and millions of westerners decided they wanted to convert to a religion they really knew nothing about. > > > > … Are you seriously suggesting that the Buddha has had more influence via Hesse’s book than otherwise, that without Hesse he would be “just be a footnote in history”? (Or doesn’t Asian history count?) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/43 "2014-07-04T02:24:27Z")
I appreciate the more in depth explanations of choices! Very interesting to read about. Salieri is another great example of this, I think. Thanks for mentioning him. Basically had no impact whatsoever but now everyone is familiar of him and his music even gets played by serious orchestras because of the fictional and completely inaccurate version of him in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/44 "2014-07-04T02:43:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Joan of Arc Joan, whose visions may well have been due to mental illness, never fought in any battles herself. She was probably more of an inspirational mascot for the French forces than an actual commander. She did quickly become legendary, however, and the legendary Joan has inspired many fictional depictions. > [@](#): > > [Lope de Aguirre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lope_de_Aguirre) He’s known today mainly through Werner Herzog’s movie, _Aguirre the Wrath of God_, which is highly fictionalized. > [@](#): > > Pocahontas A very minor figure whose saving of Captain John Smith was almost certainly a fabrication by him. Modern awareness of her is due mainly to fictional representations. > [@](#): > > Geronimo Although a significant Apache war leader, his fictional representations in innumerable movies overshadows his real story. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/45 "2014-07-04T03:00:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Joan, whose visions may well have been due to mental illness, never fought in any battles herself. She was probably more of an inspirational mascot for the French forces than an actual commander. She did quickly become legendary, however, and the legendary Joan has inspired many fictional depictions. Really? I thought her participation in fighting at the siege of Orleans was regarded as pretty historically reliable. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/46 "2014-07-04T03:25:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, Jesus was probably a real historical figure. I know there are contrary theories, but it’s hard to imagine how Christianity could have gotten started if the first generation of Christians did not at least remember him. You can be real AND legendary – e.g. Jesus, Gautama, St. Nicholas, various rulers and founders of different empires, etc. Which is why I brought up noting a divide between straight fictional characterization and popular legend. Like\*\* njtt\*\* mentions, Hesse’s outright fictional characterization of Gautama is trivial in establishing of the image and influence of the Buddha vis-a-vis the writings and traditions of his followers, even in the West I dare say. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/47 "2014-07-04T04:16:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really? I thought her participation in fighting at the siege of Orleans was regarded as pretty historically reliable. As an actual combatant, rather than just being with the forces? In any case, the main point is that her importance in legend and fiction was greatly exaggerated compared to what she actually did. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/48 "2014-07-04T05:23:22Z")
[Nicolas Flamel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Flamel) is probably only known at all by most people today because a fictional counterpart of his created [The Philosopher’s Stone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_the_Philosopher%27s_Stone) (or the Sorcerer’s Stone, depending on what market you live in) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/49 "2014-07-04T09:43:40Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Jesse James, Billy The Kid. Murdering, 2-Bit punk-asses turned into folk heroes. In that vein, Ned Kelly (really just a crook, though, props on the armour!) and Harry “Breaker” Morant (cold-blooded killer of unarmed men elevated to some sort of anti-establishment larrikin hero) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/50 "2014-07-04T11:54:07Z")
Hesse’s Siddhartha was not the Buddha Siddhartha Gautama, but a completely fictional character who happened to have the same first name, was set in the same time period, and even met the Buddha at one point, but otherwise had nothing to do with Buddhism. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/51 "2014-07-04T12:09:48Z")
I would guess that most of what the average person “knows” about **Cleopatra** comes from the Elizabeth Taylor film. And how many knew of **William Wallace** prior to the release of _Braveheart_? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/52 "2014-07-04T12:33:41Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that the Buddha has had more influence via Hesse’s book than otherwise, that without Hesse he would be “just be a footnote in history”? (Or doesn’t Asian history count?) Of course Asian history counts, but I’m not very familiar with it. However, I suspect that information about the Buddha is about as accurate as the gospels are accurate regarding the life of Jesus. The Herman Hesse book is what I have read, so it is what I mentioned. > [@Johanna](#): > > Hesse’s Siddhartha was not the Buddha Siddhartha Gautama, but a completely fictional character who happened to have the same first name, was set in the same time period, and even met the Buddha at one point, but otherwise had nothing to do with Buddhism. The point was that most of western culture gets its idea about Buddhism from the book, which means that in a large part of the world, a fictional work with the person as a character (however minor) has had more influence than the real person, and that is what the OP is asking. > [@JohnT](#): > > And how many knew of **William Wallace** prior to the release of _Braveheart_? I knew of him from a Nancy Drew book called _The Clue of the Whistling Bagpipes_. He’s not a character in the book though, he’s just mentioned as someone important in Scottish history, and in the text of a poem that leads Nancy to some clue of another (It’s been 37 years since I read it). I haven’t seen _Braveheart_, so I can’t come compare the to. The Nancy Drew book had no need to make the story exciting, and the information was scant, so it was probably as accurate as whatever the source was which was probably something like _The Encyclopedia Britannica_. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/53 "2014-07-04T13:08:49Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Anyone who had a truly great influence on the course of history could never be surprassed. Hitler, for example. Not to godwinize the thread or anything \>\_\< > > That being said, a lot of people are just throwing names out without any justification or works of fiction that they think are particularly notable or influential, so I’m a little underwhelmed by the responses so far. Oh, ok. [Mary.](http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/) Vlad the Impaler: Fictionalized as a character named [Dracula.](http://www.imdb.com/find?q=dracula&s=ch) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/54 "2014-07-04T13:20:58Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Oh, ok. > > Vlad the Impaler: Fictionalized as a character named [Dracula.](http://www.imdb.com/find?q=dracula&s=ch) Bram Stoker didn’t actually base the character of Dracula on anything known about Vlad the Impaler, he just borrowed the nickname and location, but other people have picked it up and run with it, notably Francis Ford Coppola, in a movie called _Bram Stoker’s Dracula_, that bore little resemblance to the book. There was also a TV movie called _Bram Stoker’s Dracula_ starring Jack Palance, back in the 70s, which was a little closer to the book. The people who made movies and documentaries that continued to over-stress the connection between Vlad Tepes and the fictional vampire, and even suggest anything supernatural in the life of the real Vlad Tepes are the ones actually responsible for his reputation in the modern world. However, it is true that had Stoker not borrowed the nickname, it’s doubtful anyone but people with Ph.Ds in history could tell you who Vlad Tepes was. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/55 "2014-07-04T13:27:46Z")
I wonder if Helen Keller counts? Most people know of her only from The fictional account of her childhood in _The Miracle Worker_, and her autobiography that she wrote when she was in her early 20s, which was serialized for (IIRC) _The Ladies Home Journal_. She continued to publish articles throughout her life, but they are hard to find, because she embraced a lot of radical causes, one of the least of which was women’s suffrage. She was a socialist, who thought the US ought to support the formation of the Soviet Union, and wrote extensively on that. People tend to think of her as quaint and a little naive, but she was far from that. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/56 "2014-07-04T14:21:45Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Gotta second Vlad Tepes. Put it on eBay. Nobody needs two of those. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/57 "2014-07-04T15:23:31Z")
\*\*Martin Luther King Jr. \*\*has become a legend. In the future he will probably become more legendary, as is the lot of anyone whose good points are officially remembered once a year. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/58 "2014-07-04T17:52:35Z")
Wasn’t MacBeth based on real life? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/59 "2014-07-04T21:35:48Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Wasn’t MacBeth based on real life? [Very, very loosely.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth_of_Scotland) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293/60 "2014-07-04T22:24:39Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > \*\*Martin Luther King Jr. \*\*has become a legend. In the future he will probably become more legendary, as is the lot of anyone whose good points are officially remembered once a year. Which fictional work do you have in mind? I think MLK’s image in popular culture is mainly based on the historical MLK, not a fictional representation of him. Certainly he is far better known due to his own historical importance than through any fictional version. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-figures-whose-fictionalized-versions-have-surpassed-them-in-importance/692293.md?page=4)