# Historical inaccuracies in \[b\]The Patriot\[/b\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 24, 2000, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543 "2000-11-24T16:03:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/1 "2000-11-24T16:03:17Z")
I watched the movie **The Patriot** last night (a good Thanksgiving movie) and wondered how historically accurate it was. I know Mr Gibson is known for “poetic license” when it comes to history. So how 'bout it history buffs? ---
**Author:** ![FloChi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@FloChi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloChi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/2 "2000-11-24T18:07:13Z")
One of the complaints that I heard of (from British papers) was that it was the British side (not the American side) which freed the slaves so that they could fight on the side of the british. Having not seen the movie, I don’t know how important this was to the movie. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/3 "2000-11-24T18:15:50Z")
That was indeed in the movie. The Brits “freed” any slave who fought for them. It’s a nice idea, but only if you’re on the winning side. Besides, it was more a British conscription than a choice (acording to the film). In the movie, the only slaves that were freed by Americans were the ones that fought for them for a year and managed not to die. ---
**Author:** ![Starbury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Starbury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starbury)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/4 "2000-11-24T18:25:43Z")
As far as I know, there are no historically accurate reports of British soldiers rounding up an entire village, and burning them down along with their church. Also, Mel Gibson said that his character (I forget his name in the movie, though the guy did exist) was a combination of a bunch of historical figures. In the DVD version, I think he discusses this in the Director’s Commentary section. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/5 "2000-11-24T23:12:23Z")
Very few officers in the Revolutionary War were actually Australian. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![nebuli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/0ea827/32.png) [@nebuli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nebuli)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/6 "2000-11-25T00:48:41Z")
**Starbury** said: > [@](#): > > As far as I know, there are no historically accurate reports of British soldiers rounding up an entire village, and burning them down along with their church. The editor of _American Heritage_ makes the same point in the October 2000 issue. His Letter from the Editor, entitled **George Washington and the Wehrmacht** , says the movie’s depiction of the British is as accurate as one which would have shown Washington having his troops mow down Hessian prisoners and their female and child camp followers after the Battle of Trenton. Also adds that Gibson melting down toy lead soldiers to make bullets was an anachronism, since lead toy soldiers had not yet been introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/7 "2000-11-25T01:08:08Z")
“Swamp Fox” Francis Martin was the real person’s name, IIRC. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/8 "2000-11-25T01:20:30Z")
Yes. Francis Marion sounds a lot like Gibson’s character, at least on the surface. Marion led a rag-tag group of soldiers in South Carolina, and had innovative techniques in guerilla (sp?) warfare. It is easy to find out more about the “Swamp Fox” on the internet. Oh, and Francis Marion had a son named Gabriel. Gabriel had 7 kids - 5 sons (one also named Gabriel), two daughters. Sounds a lot like Gibson’s character (who had a son name Gabriel) and a total of 7 kids. Looks like Gibson borrowed heavily from this historical figure. (By the way, a friend of mine, who was born and raised in South Carolina, said that the Swamp Fox was his childhood hero.) ---
**Author:** ![jrepka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@jrepka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jrepka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/9 "2000-11-25T03:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Starbury \* > **As far as I know, there are no historically accurate reports of British soldiers rounding up an entire village, and burning them down along with their church.** This was a significant controversy when the film was released, as the only documented case of this happening occurred in WWII, when Germans burned the occupants of a small French village in a church. The circumstances were similar enough that some accused the filmakers of equating the redcoats with Nazis. I’ve always felt that the biggest inaccuracy was the title. What made Gibson’s character a patriot? The movie was simply a 3-hour revenge fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/10 "2000-11-25T05:09:05Z")
**SPOILER ALERT** > [@](#): > > The movie was simply a 3-hour revenge fantasy. Thank you. I sat through the whole movie thinking this. The scene where they go mano-a-mano in the middle of the battlefield almost made me walk out, and I make it a point to never walk out on a movie. (I even sat through _Event Horizon_.) I let it go in _Braveheart_, because there seemed to be much more than just revenge there. It seemed to me _Patriot_ was just a half-baked retelling of the same story without much sense of the greater purpose. I was almost expecting Gibson to sail to England and impregnate the English princess. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/11 "2000-11-25T05:30:43Z")
I thought the battle scene to which you refer **mrblue92** was a bit much. But I figured that Gibson had one good fight, he might as well use it again. While I was watching the movie the women’t clothing seemed off (like 30 years too soon), so I wondered if there were any others that made the American History post-docs groan, like [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=29519) with Gladiator. I don’t have a DVD (I’m still in the dark ages) do I didn’t get to see the Director’s comments. Thanks for the background **yosemitebabe** and the cool trivia **nebuli**. **jrepka** I agree with you on the title, but **The Vengeful, Homicidal, Not-So-Bright but Good Looking, Widower** wouldn’t have been such a good title. Oh and **mrblue92** …GO GREEN!! ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/12 "2000-11-25T06:12:40Z")
At least in _Gladiator_ the final fight was in a ring, not two commanders finding each other and duking it out in the middle of a chaotic battlefield. Incidentally, ISTR from the PBS documentary _Liberty!_ that the American soldiers were just as vicious to civilians as the British were–burning homes of suspected traitors, stealing livestock and valuables, and worse. ---
**Author:** ![malden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@malden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malden)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/13 "2000-11-25T07:12:53Z")
“The Patriot” had one of the worst lines I have ever heard in a movie. It was so bad that after the movie I had to ask the people I saw it with if it really happened, or if I imagined the whole thing. Mel Gibson walks up to his widow’s sister and says, “May I sit down?” Sister replies, “It’s a free country. Or at least, it _will_ be.” I am amazed that that line was written into the script at all, let alone that it made it past any number of editors and into the final film. “It’s a free country?!” Who talked like that in the 1770’s? I thought that was an expression from the _19_70’s!! ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/14 "2000-11-25T17:17:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\*(By the way, a friend of mine, who was born and raised in South Carolina, said that the Swamp Fox was his childhood hero.) \*\* I was born and raised in Wyoming, and the Swamp Fox was a childhood hero. The magic of Disney. Mel Gibson is from Australia, but his family moved from the United States to Australia, after he was born. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bio-brat \* > **In the movie, the only slaves that were freed by Americans were the ones that fought for them for a year and managed not to die.** The blacks who worked on Gibson’s plantation in the movie told the British that they were free. The implication was that Gibson had freed them. The movie made the point that a great amount of the motivation for killing is revenge, or self-preservation, or self-aggrandizement, rather than patriotism. I think the title is ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/15 "2000-11-25T17:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alan Smithee \* > \*\*Very few officers in the Revolutionary War were actually Australian. 😉 > \*\* Well, technically, Mel is an American. He was born in [New York](http://moviething.com/bios/melgibson/). His family moved to Australia when he was 12. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/16 "2000-11-25T17:33:27Z")
It seems RM beat me to the Mel-being-born-in-the-USA thing while I was out looking for a link. That’ll teach me. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/17 "2000-11-25T17:35:17Z")
I don’t have any cites for this, but I recall reading when the film came out that some of the details about Gibson’s character were purposefully changed in order to not make a hero out of the Swamp Fox, who was apparently a really nasty guy who raped his slaves and hunted Natives for fun. And I also read that the supposed promise by the rebel army to free slaves who spent a year in service was a complete fabrication. [spoiler] Two other cheezy details not yet mentioned in this thread: (1) The Brit who kills Gabriel (can’t remember his name)'s Friday the 13th move (2) Mel on his horse grabbing the American flag to use as a weapon - it could only have been sillier if he’d speared the guy with it. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/18 "2000-11-25T18:44:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > **Well, technically, Mel is an American. He was born in New York. His family moved to Australia when he was 12.** Would you like to know why they moved? According to [http://us.imdb.com/Bio?Gibson,+Mel](http://us.imdb.com/Bio?Gibson,+Mel), his father won some money on _Jeopardy!_ and moved them all to Australia because he was afraid hs sons would be drafted into the Vietnam war. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/19 "2000-11-25T18:51:13Z")
My favorite bits of trivia on that page are that Mel and Geoffrey Rush were college roommates, and that Mel once acted as Juliet in an all male production of Romeo snd Juliet. God I wish someone had _that_ on film! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543/20 "2000-11-25T20:45:34Z")
> [@](#): > > the Swamp Fox, who was apparently a really nasty guy who raped his slaves and hunted Natives for fun. Are there any citations for this? I wouldn’t be amazed if it were true, but in these days of rampant revisionism, I’m surprised I could find no references to this aspect of his personality. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-in-b-the-patriot-b/42543.md?page=2)