# Historical inaccuracies that are not minor **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057 "2012-05-16T03:11:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/61 "2012-05-16T23:38:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > People never seem to have problems with the Scottish wearing clan tartan kilts, despite the fact that this is about as historically accurate as having the soldiers in a World War II epic using phasers and spaceships. But, the Scots of that time **did** wear [kilts,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_kilt) right? Not the “small kilts” we’re familiar with, purportedly invented by an Englishman in the 1720s, I mean the “great kilts” that could double as sleeping bags. (But, they never **fought** in them.) ---
**Author:** ![CatherineZeta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@CatherineZeta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatherineZeta)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/62 "2012-05-17T01:08:10Z")
This would be far too long of a monologue if I outlined all the factual inaccuracies in [this film about Nero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_%28film%29)which also covers the reigns of Caligula and Claudius. The Wikipedia section on the historical flaws missed the most obvious ones though. They depict Caligula being emperor, show various scenes involving Nero as a child, then there’s a caption that says “Ten Years Later”…and Caligula’s still emperor. Claudius also has an Abraham Lincoln beard and no limp, stutter, etc. It’s described in Wikipedia though as being a “Christian Apologetic” film, so maybe their point wasn’t to be historically accurate. John Simm’s portrayal of Caligula was excellent though. Not crazy at all, just power hungry with a nasty sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/63 "2012-05-17T02:41:42Z")
Schiller’s play Don Carlos makes of its eponymous prince a tragic figure, betrayed by his father’s marriage to his (Don Carlos) childhood sweetheart. I didn’t need to look it up on Wikipedia later to know that the real Don Carlos was a far more dubious figure\* but it didn’t stop my enjoyment of the play. This [review](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/schi-n12.shtml) of the excellent production I saw for myself at Sheffield’s Crucible Theatre also discusses the historical background. \*[Inbred, brain damaged and sadistic](http://brenda-ralph-lewis.suite101.com/the-tragic-life-of-don-carlos-a181765), it was no wonder his father had him confined, whether he also had him killed is unknown. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/64 "2012-05-17T03:25:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, the Scots of that time **did** wear [kilts,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_kilt) right? Not the “small kilts” we’re familiar with, purportedly invented by an Englishman in the 1720s, I mean the “great kilts” that could double as sleeping bags. (But, they never **fought** in them.) No, they would mostly have worn pants. In battle the better equipped men, which would have included Wallace, would have worn chain mail and such; he certainly would not have gone charging into battle without wearing armor. He wasn’t as insane as Mel Gibson. The kilts worn in “Braveheart” are great kilts, more or less. When William Wallace was alive those were still about two hundred years into the future. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/65 "2012-05-17T03:58:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No, they would mostly have worn pants. In battle the better equipped men, which would have included Wallace, would have worn chain mail and such; he certainly would not have gone charging into battle without wearing armor. He wasn’t as insane as Mel Gibson. > > The kilts worn in “Braveheart” are great kilts, more or less. When William Wallace was alive those were still about two hundred years into the future. ☹ Next you’ll be telling us [“clan tartans” are a fraud](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestiarium_Scoticum) [by frauds!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sobieski_Stuarts) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/66 "2012-05-17T04:03:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > the better equipped men snerk ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/67 "2012-05-17T04:15:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Stirling Bridge. And I do not believe the words “Battle of Stirling Bridge” appear on screen; IIRC **it just said “Stirling.”** Yep. Just confirmed it with my copy. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/68 "2012-05-17T04:54:08Z")
How about _Apocalypto_ which is supposedly about the end of the Mayan civilization, where the Spanish conquistidors show up 600 years early? Unless the little guy being chased was running away from Aztecs, in which case he had to run hundreds of miles through the jungle with spears and arrows through him in order to reach the ocean. I remember sitting in the theater, sarcastically thinking towards the end, “What now? Christopher Columbus shows up?” And then, he did!! I almost wet my pants laughing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/69 "2012-05-17T05:11:49Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > How about _Apocalypto_ which is supposedly about the end of the Mayan civilization, where the Spanish conquistidors show up 600 years early? We’ve discussed this in CS (I think) before; somebody asserted that while the “high” Mayan civilization was long extinct by that time, there were still some Mayan city-states hanging on. Haven’t researched that. In any case, [human sacrifice, while certainly practiced, was a far smaller deal in Maya culture than in Aztec.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrifice_in_Maya_culture#Human_sacrifice) ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/70 "2012-05-17T05:28:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Stirling Bridge. And I do not believe the words “Battle of Stirling Bridge” appear on screen; IIRC it just said “Stirling.” It appears I’ve misremembered badly. Was that the scene where Bonny Prince Charlie beat Henry VIII by pelting him with haggis and cabers? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/71 "2012-05-17T05:45:29Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > It appears I’ve misremembered badly. Was that the scene where Bonny Prince Charlie beat Henry VIII by pelting him with haggis and cabers? Shut up! Here come the ninjas! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/72 "2012-05-17T06:32:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We’ve discussed this in CS (I think) before; somebody asserted that while the “high” Mayan civilization was long extinct by that time, there were still some Mayan city-states hanging on. Yep. Most notably [Zacpeten](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacpeten) and [Tayasal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tayasal). For that matter at least a few older Classic sites like Chichen Itza were apparently still occupied, if no longer terribly relevant as power centers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/73 "2012-05-17T06:41:16Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Yep. Most notably [Zacpeten](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacpeten) and [Tayasal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tayasal). For that matter at least a few older Classic sites like Chichen Itza were apparently still occupied, if no longer terribly relevant as power centers. But, did they (at that time) raid their more primitive neighbors for sacrificial victims, as Gibson portrays? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/74 "2012-05-17T07:21:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, did they (at that time) raid their more primitive neighbors for sacrificial victims, as Gibson portrays? What Gibson portrayed is reasonably accurate as to what we know about human sacrifice among the Maya ( which occurred, but with less frequency than with the Aztecs - usually it was tied to expiating some ill like drought ). And Chichen Itza was definitely one of the centers that indulged in such and it was still occupied in the 16th century. However whether it was in the still in the business of doing so at that point I have no idea. But Gibson definitely did do some research. There actually _was_ a complete solar eclipse in 1511, the same year the first European vessel ship-wrecked along the Mayan-occupied coastline of the Yucatán ( and as it happens some of the small crew of that vessel ended up as Mayan sacrifices ). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/75 "2012-05-17T08:03:19Z")
The movie _Elizabeth_ with Cate Blanchett had some absolute whoppers, but one that stands out is the death of a woman Robert Dudley has just had sex with because she puts on a poisoned dress that was intended for Elizabeth. How is a poisoned dress even possible? (Yes, there was one in _Medea_, but she had supernatural dark powers.) I didn’t see the second movie with Blanchett as E1, but the mere fact that a 30 something Blanchett was playing the by then 50 something Elizabeth, and that they passed off her white makeup and wig as some sort of Virgin Mary substitute instead of the ruined complexion and thin hair (from smallpox) is enough to make it not worth the while to me. HBO’s ROME had some rather massive ones that have been dealt with in other threads. They were partially brought about by the fact there was supposed to be a third season but they were cancelled in Season 2 and had to wrap it up quick. The major things cut or changed included the absence of Livia’s oldest son, from whom descended Claudius, Caligula, and Nero, and Octavius’s daughter, Julia, also an ancestress of Caligula and Nero and important in her own right. There were numerous other omissions of characters (e.g. Antony’s first several wives, most notably Fulvia, and children, including one of his children with Cleopatra [they did include the twins]), some major chronology problems that made more than 20 years seem like maybe 5, and then there were characters like Atia, the mother of Octavius and Octavia and a major character, portrayed as a conniving woman who was widowed young and is in love with Antony for years but was in fact a Roman matron who was married to her second husband, Octavius’s stepfather (to whom he was quite close) during the events portrayed in the entire first season and most of the second, and she was dead [of natural causes] for the years covered in the last few episodes. Mel Gibson’s _Passion of the Christ_ portrayed Herod Antipas as, if not gay, certainly effeminate and weak. The real Antipas was such a horndog that he divorced his wife and took his brother’s wife Herodias (who was also his niece) and then lusted for her daughter, and no Herodian monarch was really known for weakness. It also shows about a 5.5 earthquake hitting the Jerusalem Temple after Jesus’s crucifixion when what the Bible says happened was the incomparably more profound but less impressive on screen act of the curtain separating the Holy of Holies tearing. I don’t speak Latin, but at the time there were editorials criticizing the pronunciation of the Latin lines such as “Ecce Homo” for a movie that was so gung ho on linguistic authenticity it was filmed in Aramaic (and besides which, the characters who spoke Latin in the movie probably would have spoken Greek in real life). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/76 "2012-05-17T09:17:58Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > “The Patriot” was widely savaged in the press in the UK due to the misrepresentation of, well, a lot but mostly due to a scene involving the locking of people in a church and setting fire to it. Hey now, that really happened ! Only it was [in France](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane). Also in 1944. Details. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/77 "2012-05-17T10:26:14Z")
The German war movie “Das Boot” contains a number of inaccuracies that were deliberately included to make for some compelling scenes. For instance, the scene where rivets pop out and fly like bullets during a depth charge attack is fiction since in WW II, the bodies of German submarines were actually welded. In one of the early scenes, an enlisted crew member gets annoyed by the lieutenant who is taking pictures and gets in the way of everybody; he then hurls an oily rag into the officer’s face. This sort of behavior would have been absolutely unthinkable. The author of the novel, Lothar-Günther Buchheim, specifically cited this scene when he distanced himself from the movie. The actors in the movie were for the most part too old to play crew members who served on German U-boats in WW II. Even the captain (the “old man”) of the real U-96 had only just turned 30. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/78 "2012-05-17T10:41:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Shut up! Here come the ninjas! That reminds me of _Brotherhood of the Wolf_, which, surprisingly for werewolf movie, was inspired by a historical event. An [alleged event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_G%C3%A9vaudan), anyway. I was perfectly able to suspend disbelief and enjoy the flick, but some people had trouble with the [kung-fu fighting](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLcWuFjKZDQ). > [@Sampiro](#): > > I didn’t see the second movie with Blanchett as E1… You didn’t miss much, beyond maybe the camp value of Blanchett putting on her war wig to greet the Armada. I enjoyed the first one, though. > [@](#): > > HBO’s ROME had some rather massive ones that have been dealt with in other threads. They were partially brought about by the fact there was supposed to be a third season but they were cancelled in Season 2 and had to wrap it up quick. _Rome_ is an interesting case, especially in light of the OP. It was obvious that the creators were doing their homework while at the same time playing fast and loose-- one of the episodes is called “How Titus Pullo Brought Down the Republic,” for instance. Steven Saylor, one of those historical detective authors, enjoyed it a lot up until the appearance of a dope-smoking [Cleopatra](http://www.stevensaylor.com/HBORome.html). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/79 "2012-05-17T13:42:36Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > In one of the early scenes, an enlisted crew member gets annoyed by the lieutenant who is taking pictures and gets in the way of everybody; he then hurls an oily rag into the officer’s face. This sort of behavior would have been absolutely unthinkable. In [bany\*\* navy, I should think! > [@Donnerwetter](#): > > The actors in the movie were for the most part too old to play crew members who served on German U-boats in WW II. Even the captain (the “old man”) of the real U-96 had only just turned 30. [Dawson Casting](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DawsonCasting) would be a whole 'nother thread. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057/80 "2012-05-17T14:43:49Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > … It also shows about a 5.5 earthquake hitting the Jerusalem Temple after Jesus’s crucifixion when what the Bible says happened was the incomparably more profound but less impressive on screen act of the curtain separating the Holy of Holies tearing… From the Book of Matthew: > [@](#): > > 45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[d] > > 47 When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He’s calling Elijah.” > > 48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49 The rest said, “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to save him.” > > 50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. > > 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. **The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open.** The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and[e] went into the holy city and appeared to many people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-inaccuracies-that-are-not-minor/622057.md?page=5)