Historical movies that haven't been done yet, that you'd like to see

Out of curiosity, did you read it as a result of the SDMB? I ask because I have recommended it several times here (it’s probably the most absorbing history book I’ve ever read) and would be tickled to know if you read it because of my recommendation.

Anyway, I would like to see a movie of the 1761 and 1769 Transits of Venus. Timothy Ferris describes all of the adventures that astronomers went through to observe them in different parts of the world in Coming of Age in the Milky Way - it’s a fascinating story.

I don’t know how well it would play in America, but the stories of the two most famous Bulgarian revolutionaries, Hristo Botev and Vassil Levsky, would make for a good depressing art house film. Botev was a poet and Levsky was a journalist. While still young, they both fled the country because of persecution from the Turks for their revolutionary antics. They met for the first time in exile in Bucharest (which is funny because they’re actually from neighboring cities) and planned a revolution against the Turks. They crossed the Danube back into Bulgaria on a ship with the intention of lighting a revolutionary fervor and throwing the Turks out. Instead, they were caught, and both were executed. I think they were both still in their 20s (or maybe early 30s?) at the time. It’s a very romantic (martyred poets!) and depressing story. This was in, oh, the 1870s, I think. Anyway, like, half the stuff in Bulgaria is named after one or the other of them, but I don’t think anyone’s ever made a film of the story.

Not the big-budget epic it deserves, but the film version of the play Royal Hunt of the Sun is on Youtube. (Robert Shaw is always worth watching)

We have this thread topic every so often, so I’ll add what I always add: a film of the Czech Legion in the Russian Civil War would be a great movie. Cut off from home in the middle of a war? Don’t just steal a train - steal the whole railroad, and eight boxcars of the Tsar’s gold, too.

Abraham Lincoln is deserving of an epic miniseries- but it would have to be a miniseries. His life was just far too interesting to condense into 2 hours; he could easily fill 10 or even 20 without a lot of padding.

Spielberg has been working on a Lincoln project starring Liam Neeson but it keeps getting back burnered- I don’t think any shootings been done (no pun intended). Robert Redford has a Mary Surratt project that’s in production, but it’s surprising how little has been done lately about the man himself. Even his childhood and early years are compelling:

-his birth (rumors of illegitimacy plagued him his entire life, and while he probably was the lawfully begotten child of Tom and Nancy Hanks Lincoln his mother was from a family infamous for their ‘easy virtue’- Nancy herself was illegitimate, her grandmother did time in jail for adultery, and one of her aunts had 5 children and never married)
-his mother’s death (most people know his mother died when he was little, but don’t realize how terrible a death it was- she was in agony for days and they were all crowded into that tiny cabin)
-his relationship with his father (essentially mutual disrespect-and after they killed each other’s dogs it really went to hell)
-his famous “book borrowing” education, which was real
-his trip down the Mississippi to New Orleans (where in addition to an up close look at slavery he saw a Shakespearean play starring Junius Brutus Booth, an experience he remembered forever)
-his failed bid for office, failure in business, and first brush with suicidal depression in New Salem (including whatever happened with Ann Rutledge)
-his early days on the legislative circuit (among other known stories the men all rode fast and furious not just to get bedspace at the taverns but to avoid sharing a bed or room with a flatulent obese judge)
-the Illinois legislature- more interesting than it seems- it was more like a wild west saloon brawl than a government (plus most people don’t realize just how “Wild West” Illinois was (it’s why the Mormons chose it- and they were there at the time Lincoln was rising)
-his friendship with Speed (which I’d leave deliberately enigmatic- it worries me that openly gay playwright Tony Kushner is writing Spielberg’s play as I fear he may leap to some decisions on this)
-his visit to prostitutes and subsequent terror he had an STD
-his courtships- plural- of Mary Todd, including his leaving her standing at the alter (or close to)
-his broadsword duel with Jimmy Shields (which most people don’t realize even happened, let alone that he did it to protect Mary whom he felt guilt for jilting)
-early life with Mary Todd (a difficult woman to be sure but not quite the hell beast she’s often portrayed as- she had her good points and was sinned against as well as sinning- for example, the story of her splashing hot coffee in his face when they were newlyweds he chided her for being late to breakfast at the boarding house is often told, but apparently few people look at the dates and realize she was pregnant [may have been pregnant when they married- Robert was born not quite 9 months after the hurried wedding] and probably had morning sickness)

And all of this is way before most biographies even start. Touch on his career as a corporate lawyer, his acts when his father was on his death bed, his trip back to Indiana, his speech in Congress opposing the Mexican War by arguing all groups should have the right to self determination and secession (words that came back to haunt him), his recurring bouts of “melancholy”, Mary’s recurring bouts with insanity, the births of their sons (Mary almost died with Tad [name Thomas- called Tad because Lincoln said with his long body and huge head he looked like a tadpole] and as a result of this they may not ever have had sex again), his increasing presence on the national level (the man came out of nowhere and was one of the unlikeliest presidents ever).

I’d do two miniseries in fact- one leading to his inauguration and the other covering the presidency. The Gore Vidal miniseries had its moments but wasn’t even that true to the book, let alone the man.

Trivia about that movie:

-Christopher Plummer, who played the Incan emperor, had recently played Pizarro in the play version on Broadway
-It’s by Peter Shaffer, who wrote Amadeus and Equus
-It flopped big time.

It’s also, like Amadeus, intended more as allegory than for historical accuracy, so take very little as written.

Has there ever been a biopic, or better yet, a miniseries about Lorenzo de Medici? With all that drama, art, blood and costumes I can’t imagine why not. It would give us a break from all the Henry 8 movies/TV shows.

Yes, if you recommended it in the recent thread on American history books (where there was a lot of sniping about James Leowen); but I had been meaning to read it since I saw in the bookstore a couple of years ago.

I was rather disappointed to learn that none of the remaining four volumes of the Penguin History of the United States has been published or even has a tentative pub date announced.

And don’t forget the gay thing.

It was probably truer to the man than any other depiction I’ve seen. At least Waterston gave us an animated portrayal of Lincoln. Every other actor seems to approach the role as if they’re portraying the Lincoln Memorial. Except for Henry Fonda, who seemed to have thought his movie was titled “Young Abe Lincoln on Dope”.

yes, and his stage Atahualpa was David Carradine!
“actors who died from the same method as characters they played”

I guess Errol Flynn would be on that list, too; since he played Barrymore. Jack Cassidy also played Barrymore, but lit a cigarette and took a short-cut.

Is it true that when his son died, Abe had him exhumed three times because he was so grief stricken at never seeing his boy again?? :eek: I read this somewhere and can believe it, since death was such a more in-your-face thing over a hundred years ago.

Not exactly exhumed, but just as morbid. He would take long walks- sometimes without any guard or escort if he could slip past them- and invariably would wind up in the small tomb where his son was interred in D.C., and he is known to have slid back the top of the vault and opened the coffin. (His son was embalmed but even so- with D.C.'s hot and humid summers it’s not likely he kept long.) When Lincoln was killed Willie’s body was sent back to Springfield on the same train.

I’ll link when I’m at a faster connection, but Elizabeth Kekley- Mary’s dress maker and confidante (a black lady who’d bought her way out of slavery) wrote the most heartbreaking account of Willie’s death. She was there when Lincoln first came to see the body.

Which brings to mind the story of the Czech Legion - 100,000 Czechs caught on the wrong side of the lines after Russia makes peace with Germany in 1917 and the Russian Civil War broke out. Unable to go home westward, they eventually took over much of the trans-Siberian railway, and under Allied orders attacked westward again, probably triggering the execution of the Russian Royal family. Eventually as the Reds start winning the war the fight their way eastward to Vladivostock, eventually returning home in 1920 to become the core of the army of the brand new state of Czechoslovakia.

As far as Burton, there was also the miniseries:

I’d like to see the Battle of Hastings done. As a tragedy of course.

While researching Jefferson Davis I uncovered what I honestly believe to be a 140+ year old conspiracy theory that has much to do with why he was never brought to trial and, of course, I think would be one helluva movie. :wink:
But meanwhile I’ll mention just one person involved in it (in the outer levels, not as a key player): Victoria Woodhull. I’ve been familiar with her for a long time and her life screams for a movie- the first woman ever to run for president (Frederick Douglass was her running mate) but that’s the least of it. She and her sister Tennessee were two (of the many) children of Buck Claflin, a snake oil salesman (literally- a snake oil salesman- if you’ve heard the term, Buck Claflin may well be why- think “preached a little gospel, sold a coupla bottles of Dr. Good”) who may have sexually abused them; they both died wealthy titled aristocrats in England many years later. Their fortunes were based on a con-artist spiritualism- they had a double sided con going with Cornelius Vanderbilt (the old Commodorebeing a perfect role for Gene Hackman- pictures of the sisters )they connected him (and many other wealthy New Yorkers) with dead loved ones in exchange for stock tips. They manipulated him and he returned the favor- when they opened a brokerage that largely thrived on the fact they were intimate- probably in all senses of the word- with the richest man in the nation he would sometimes pass along stock tips that benefited him more than the investors. They were sensations at the trial involving his estate.

Short version [trust me, there’s a really long one]: the Commodore left a fortune of well over $100 million in 1877; today that’s conservatively worth about $2 billion but, figuring it as a percentage of the GDP as a recent biographer did it’s more like $45 billion- Bill Gates/Warren Buffett/just inconceivable to most people money.
The Commodore was not exactly warm hearted- he had a huge family (13 kids of whom 10 survived him) but didn’t particularly give a damn about any of them save for one of the dead ones (George Washington Vanderbilt I- one of the ones Vick and Tenn relayed messages to and from) and, only in his last years, his son William Henry “The public be damned” Vanderbilt. In his will he left his eight daughters amounts ranging from $250,000 to $500,000 each and his younger surviving son, Jeremiah [who went by Cornelius Jr.] the income from a trust fund valued at $200,000. (Today these amounts may seem paltry- the interest on $200,000 wouldn’t be a comfortable living anywhere- but again this was in 1877 when even the 200K would be conservatively several million and even at 3% the interest would fund very comfortable lifestyle.) He left his second wife- also his second cousin (his first wife had been his first cousin) $500,000, to charities and other relatives bequests totaling about $1.5 million altogether; all told these bequests were less than $5 million.
Next he left a total of about $15 million to his grandsons by William Henry (William Henry and his sons (Cornelius II, William K., Frederick and George Washington II).
All of the rest- close to 100 million- went to William Henry, a son for whom he'd had little use until the spirits of his mother, his first wife, his son G.W., and others- through the Claflin sisters (actually they went by their married names) all relayed the same message: William Henry worships the ground you walk on and loves you dearly and will double whatever you leave him and see all your works prosper eternally; the daughters couldn't care less if you live or die so leave their share of the estate to William Henry, and Cornelius Jeremiah- screw him, he's a total screw-up who'll spend anything you leave him on booze, whores, pyramid schemes and parties so leave him an income [that part was totally true]). The daughters and Jeremiah sued, arguing not that they got too little (remember, in our they were all left multi-multi-millionaires) but that William Henry got too much (yeah, right… it’s the principal of the thing, not the fact you wanna be Oprah rich yourselves). The trial was front page news and the allegations that W.H. had conspired with the Sisters Claflin to deceive and defraud the old man were rife and ultimately it was settled out of court before the sisters could take the stand in the trial they were already the stars of without ever testifying; William Henry threw a few million at his sisters and brother [who really did spend it on women, drugs, booze, and eventually killed himself, whereupon his still substantial for the time estate went back to his brother], and William Henry went on to more than double it within a decade, leaving a $200 million estate (making him the richest man in the world excluding royalty] when he died in 1885.

Meanwhile the sisters had moved from a brokerage into tabloid journalism. Victoria advocated women’s suffrage, racial equality, workers rights, birth control, and other things considered radical, and a few things even we would consider radical. She was most infamous for being an advocate of Free Love (her own marriage and that of her sister and that of their parents had all been miserable which was one reason she wasn’t too sentimental on the topic of til death us do part forsaking all others) and, not surprisingly for the time, she was a big advocate of the still very legal and cheap cocaine. (This wasn’t that radical- even the Pope appeared in advertisements for Vin Mariani, the cocaine wine that he took for migraines.)
A surprising thing about Victoria was that she was actually prudish on some things. She believed in birth control (not a lot of reliable options in the 1870s of course) but she was very anti abortion on a personal level (though she did believe in its legality), and she was pro Free Love and anti-marriage but she was also anti legalized prostitution and what then passed for pornography [“French postcards” and dirty novels basically- the really hardcore stuff wouldn’t come until the 1880s/1890s).
She was denounced by all the moralizers but none moreso than Henry Ward Beecher (brother of Harriet Beecher Stowe and) the most popular and respected- and wealthiest- minister in America. He made a side career of trashing her in his sermons and in the press, she found him guilty of inciting some of the violence against her, and she responded by exposing him as a hypocrite, giving all the sordid details of his extramarital affairs (especially one with a Mrs. Tilton) in her tabloid; she didn’t exactly destroy him, but she very definitely gave him reason to stock up on Vin Mariani and destroyed much of his popularity.
Anyway, she had a colorful life. She ultimately married an English banker, becoming Lady Victoria Woodhull Martin when he was dubbed. Her sister was the wife of a Viscount by this time. They had a falling out in England and had little or no contact for the rest of their very long lives, but both died “in comfortable circumstances” in England in the 20th century, running magazines and giving lectures and sometimes doing horrifying domestic stuff until the end of their days.

While researching Jefferson Davis I uncovered what I honestly believe to be a 140+ year old conspiracy theory that has much to do with why he was never brought to trial and, of course, I think would be one helluva movie. :wink:

But meanwhile I’ll mention just one person involved in it (in the outer levels, not as a key player): Victoria Woodhull. I’ve been familiar with her for a long time and her life screams for a movie- the first woman ever to run for president (Frederick Douglass was her running mate) but that’s the least of it. She and her sister Tennessee were two (of the many) children of Buck Claflin, a snake oil salesman (literally- a snake oil salesman- if you’ve heard the term, Buck Claflin may well be why- think “preached a little gospel, sold a coupla bottles of Dr. Good”) who may have sexually abused them; they both died wealthy titled aristocrats in England many years later. Their fortunes were based on a con-artist spiritualism- they had a double sided con going with Cornelius Vanderbilt (the old Commodorebeing a perfect role for Gene Hackman- pictures of the sisters.

I’d call the movie THE TRIALS OF VICTORIA WOODHULL and concentrate on two key events- the Vanderbilt trial and the Beecher trial. There’s also room for sex scenes (Victoria and Tennie had many lovers- may in fact have been courtesans) as well as politics and women’s issues, and political corruption and religious hypocrisy are timeless themes.

The sisters connected the Commodore (and many other wealthy New Yorkers) with dead loved ones in exchange for stock tips. They manipulated him and he returned the favor- when they opened a brokerage that largely thrived on the fact they were intimate with the richest man in the nation- probably intimate in all senses of the word (there’s little doubt Tennie was the old horndog’s woman, even though she was married). Vanderbilt knew this of course and would sometimes pass along stock tips that benefited him more than the investors. They were sensations at the trial involving his estate.

Short version [trust me, there’s a really long one]: the Commodore left a fortune of well over $100 million in 1877; today that’s conservatively worth about $2 billion but, figuring it as a percentage of the GDP as a recent biographer did it’s more like $45 billion- Bill Gates/Warren Buffett/just inconceivable to most people money.
The Commodore was not exactly warm hearted- he had a huge family (13 kids of whom 10 survived him) but didn’t particularly give a damn about any of them save for one of the dead ones (George Washington Vanderbilt I- one of the ones Vick and Tenn relayed messages to and from) and, only in his last years, his son William Henry “The public be damned” Vanderbilt. In his will he left his eight daughters amounts ranging from $250,000 to $500,000 each and his younger surviving son, Jeremiah [who went by Cornelius Jr.] the income from a trust fund valued at $200,000. (Today these amounts may seem paltry- the interest on $200,000 wouldn’t be a comfortable living anywhere- but again this was in 1877 when even the 200K would be conservatively several million and even at 3% the interest would fund very comfortable lifestyle.) He left his second wife- also his second cousin (his first wife had been his first cousin) $500,000, to charities and other relatives bequests totaling about $1.5 million altogether; all told these bequests were less than $5 million.
Next he left a total of about $15 million to his grandsons by William Henry (William Henry and his sons (Cornelius II, William K., Frederick and George Washington II).
All of the rest- close to 100 million- went to William Henry, a son for whom he'd had little use until the spirits of his mother, his first wife, his son G.W., and others- through the Claflin sisters (actually they went by their married names) all relayed the same message: William Henry worships the ground you walk on and loves you dearly and will double whatever you leave him and see all your works prosper eternally; the daughters couldn't care less if you live or die so leave their share of the estate to William Henry, and Cornelius Jeremiah- screw him, he's a total screw-up who'll spend anything you leave him on booze, whores, pyramid schemes and parties so leave him an income [that part was totally true]). The daughters and Jeremiah sued, arguing not that they got too little (remember, in our they were all left multi-multi-millionaires) but that William Henry got too much (yeah, right… it’s the principal of the thing, not the fact you wanna be Oprah rich yourselves). The trial was front page news and the allegations that W.H. had conspired with the Sisters Claflin to deceive and defraud the old man were rife and ultimately it was settled out of court before the sisters could take the stand in the trial they were already the stars of without ever testifying; William Henry threw a few million at his sisters and brother [who really did spend it on women, drugs, booze, and eventually killed himself, whereupon his still substantial for the time estate went back to his brother], and William Henry went on to more than double it within a decade, leaving a $200 million estate (making him the richest man in the world excluding royalty] when he died in 1885.

Meanwhile the sisters had moved from a brokerage into tabloid journalism. Victoria advocated women’s suffrage, racial equality, workers rights, birth control, and other things considered radical, and a few things even we would consider radical. She was most infamous for being an advocate of Free Love (her own marriage and that of her sister and that of their parents had all been miserable which was one reason she wasn’t too sentimental on the topic of til death us do part forsaking all others) and, not surprisingly for the time, she was a big advocate of the still very legal and cheap cocaine. (This wasn’t that radical- even the Pope appeared in advertisements for Vin Mariani, the cocaine wine that he took for migraines.)
A surprising thing about Victoria was that she was actually prudish on some things. She believed in birth control (not a lot of reliable options in the 1870s of course) but she was very anti abortion on a personal level (though she did believe in its legality), and she was pro Free Love and anti-marriage but she was also anti legalized prostitution and what then passed for pornography [“French postcards” and dirty novels basically- the really hardcore stuff wouldn’t come until the 1880s/1890s).
She was denounced by all the moralizers but none moreso than Henry Ward Beecher (brother of Harriet Beecher Stowe and) the most popular and respected- and wealthiest- minister in America. He made a side career of trashing her in his sermons and in the press, she found him guilty of inciting some of the violence against her, and she responded by exposing him as a hypocrite, giving all the sordid details of his extramarital affairs (especially one with a Mrs. Tilton) in her tabloid; she didn’t exactly destroy him, but she very definitely gave him reason to stock up on Vin Mariani and destroyed much of his popularity. Beecher would be a good role for David Morse I think, or for J.K. Simmons (who would be playing a Beecher instead of raping one like he did in OZ).

Anyway, she had a colorful life. She ultimately married an English banker, becoming Lady Victoria Woodhull Martin when he was dubbed. Her sister was the wife of a Viscount by this time. They had a falling out in England and had little or no contact for the rest of their very long lives, but both died “in comfortable circumstances” in England in the 20th century, running magazines and giving lectures and sometimes doing horrifying domestic stuff until the end of their days.

Oops- sorry about the double post- I’d delete this one but I’d rather delete the other one.

They also give him a dignified somber voice like Gregory Peck (who in fact played Lincoln). His voice was described- in many sources- as surprisingly high pitched for a man of his size and with a very thick regional accent that also belayed his lack of formal education: he said “cheerman” instead of chair, “heared” instead of heard, warsh instead of wash, etc… Because he was self conscious about it he would actually sometimes play it up (i.e. laughing at yourself first makes you less the butt of jokes). Liam Neeson’s a great actor, but his voice is all wrong and he’s too beefy and good looking for Lincoln; Tom Hanks (a distant cousin*) would be better but they’d have to ugly him up some.

*Lincoln’s closest celebrity relative- one of his closest of any ilk- is George Clooney, a descendant of one of Nancy Hanks’ sisters. Abraham was the only one of his parents’ children to have children and his direct lineage died out in the 1980s with his great-grandchildren.

I’ve always been intrigued by the story of Louis Napolean, the Prince Imperial. Who died during the Zulu War in Africa when his small scout party wa ambushed.

Legend has it that when the went back to his body they found it surrounded by multiple dead Zulus, killed by his sword, and dozens of spear wounds on his body, but none in his back.

I further read somewhere that when his mother went to search for him, she ran unerringly to the spot where he had fallen, guided by the smell of his favourite flower (I forget exactly which one, but I think it might have been purple), which were apparently growing near the spot.

Personally, I’d say it’s a poetic Victorian Embellishment to try and salvage something from the generally bad situation, though.

But a great story none the less.

I want to see a good Poe biopic.