# Historical myths DEBUNKED! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2025, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251 "2025-08-19T02:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/21 "2025-08-19T17:05:49Z")
I believe the experiment was done on a clear day to demonstrate that there is an electrostatic field surrounding the earth whose strength increases with altitude. Ignorant authors added lightning. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/22 "2025-08-19T17:26:41Z")
“The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor just, out of the blue, for no apparent reason, other than being (led by) bad people.” This is the basic tenor of the narrative that is fed to school children in the US. 1940-41 are an indistinct blur, during which not much of anything happened. Americans were innocently going on about their lives when suddenly _ **BAM!** _ the war came to the US.        The reality appears to be that FDR provoked the attack by placing an embargo on exports of petroleum that Japan needed to prosecute the expansion of their empire. There was resistance to the embargo, especially in the America First camp, which strongly opposed any US involvement in the goings on over yonder. It seems evident that FDR genuinely wanted the US to get involved fairly soon. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/23 "2025-08-19T17:45:54Z")
The Japanese goal was to eliminate western colonialism in southeast Asia. The Pacific Island attacks were a tactic but not the opening strike. Had the fleet not been present Japan probably would have attacked and occupied Hawaii. The subsequent war did accomplish their goal. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/24 "2025-08-19T18:03:04Z")
The ‘heros’ of the Alamo were desperate land speculators, slavers and con men. Their stand was based on the wealth they could obtain by stealing the land from Mexico. Their defeat was the result of miscalculation. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/25 "2025-08-19T18:14:42Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > **The Great Chicago Fire of 1871-** The fire started in an alley and was of unknown origin. Mrs. O’Leary’s cow didn’t kick over a lantern. Good one. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Some shit is eternal. Good bet Plato’s original ref to Atlantis was similarly sourced. This happened with the “Cowboys wore bowlers, not cowboy hats”- while it is true the classic Stetson didnt come out until near the end of the cowboy era, cowboys worse floppy sorta shapeless wool hats, called :wideawake”, or straw or even sombreros. Yes, the Wild Bunch posed for a classic picture wearing ‘duds” and bowler hats- posed. Period photos show many styles of hats on the range- no bowlers. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > “Columbus wanted to prove the Earth was round.” No, that had nothing to do with it. At the time it was (mostly) common knowledge the Earth was round. At least among the educated classes. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > They point to supposed similarities between ancient structures around the world, cond claim we have “no idea” how some such structures were built. The famous ancient aliens racist claim- “brown people couldnt have made this , so aliens did”. 🙄 > [@sunacres](#): > > 'Cause none of the examples posted have any credible citations for either reality. Do you really think there was an atlantis as described by Plato? > **[What Plato Told Us About the Lost Continent of Atlantis](https://www.thoughtco.com/platos-atlantis-from-the-timaeus-119667)** > > Plato's Atlantis is a story from the 4th-century Greek philosopher's Socratic dialogues, which describe a classic battle between good and evil. ## Is Plato’s Atlantis Based on a Real Island? _The Atlantis story is clearly a parable: Plato’s myth is of two cities that compete with each other, not on legal grounds but rather cultural and political confrontation and ultimately war. A small but just city (an Ur-Athens) triumphs over a mighty aggressor (Atlantis). The story also features a cultural war between wealth and modesty, between a maritime and an agrarian society, and between an engineering science and a spiritual force._ > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I was wondering on reddit if lane changes in intersections were legal in California or not. A friend had his lawyer research this- it seems- there is no such specific law, but it could well be considered an “unsafe lane change”. > [@HeyHomie](#): > > Benjamin Franklin’s (indescribably dangerous) experiment with a kite and a key didn’t lead to Franklin _discovering_ electricity. Rather, it was to demonstrate that electricity and lightning were both related to the same phenomenon. Good one. > [@eschereal](#): > > The reality appears to be that FDR provoked the attack by placing an embargo on exports of petroleum that Japan needed to prosecute the expansion of their empire. Calling that a _provocation_ instead of a _measured response to further Imperial japanese aggression_ is very debatable. So, not a myth that has been debunked- rather a debatable point. let us not debate this here in this thread, but it makes a great point for Great Debates. Maybe a new thread there? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/26 "2025-08-19T18:27:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Calling that a _provocation_ instead of a _measured response to further Imperial japanese aggression_ is very debatable. So, not a myth that has been debunked- rather a debatable point. Well, I disagree that it is debatable but will respect your desire to suppress discussion on it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/27 "2025-08-19T18:28:49Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Well, I disagree that it is debatable but will respect your desire to suppress discussion on it. Only in this thread- I wouldnt mind discussing it elsewhere, like GD. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/28 "2025-08-19T18:37:49Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > The Japanese goal was to eliminate western colonialism in southeast Asia. The Pacific Island attacks were a tactic but not the opening strike. Had the fleet not been present Japan probably would have attacked and occupied Hawaii. The subsequent war did accomplish their goal. Well, that’s a huge myth, for sure. Admittedly, I’ve only heard part of it before. While I’ve heard lots of “what if the Japanese had occupied Hawaii” (typically followed by a response about logistics), I’ve never ever heard the idea of them having had it as actual thing they would have done without a fleet there. But then, without a fleet, so much would be so different that it’s very difficult to even speculate about. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/29 "2025-08-19T18:55:06Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > Well, that’s a huge myth, for sure. Again, this is debatable, so please take it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/30 "2025-08-19T19:18:26Z")
Revere also did not even make it all the way to Concord. He got apprehended by the British. But he got as far as Lexington, where he told Samuel Adams and John Hancock, and bumped into Samuel Prescott. Prescott did make it to Concord. So Revere deserves at least a B+ on the Warn the Colonists Assignment. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/31 "2025-08-19T19:30:50Z")
Occasionally I see westerns where a character is to be assigned to the seventh cavalry, which the audience is to take as effectively a death sentence. But the reality of the events is that two thirds of the seventh cavalry survived the battle of the Little Big Horn. Only the three companies that Custer led into Medicine Tail Coulee were wiped out. The companies under the command of Reno and Benteen suffered some casualties but had more survivors than fatalities. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/32 "2025-08-19T20:01:47Z")
This is the [Hyperdiffusionist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperdiffusionism) hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/33 "2025-08-19T20:03:47Z")
Lewis and Clark were _not_ explorers that were poking around the west for funsies and maybe glory just because all that land was there. Rather, they were the leaders of elite, hand-picked military unit that had been commissioned for one purpose: to find a navigable water route between the Mississippi (via the Missouri) and the west coast, via the Columbia. The US having just made the Louisiana Purchase, a group of white men informing the natives who their new overlords was an added bonus. Everything else: observations of the flora and fauna, notes on tributaries of the Mississippi / Missouri / Columbia, and documenting the geography of the Great Plains and Rockies were all secondary objectives. Also, William Clark held the rank of Second Lieutenant. Meriwether Lewis was the captain and the commander of the unit. In practice they shared that responsibility and most of the enlisted men believed that both Clark and Lewis held the rank of Captain, but this was not so and Clark did defer to Lewis whenever they needed to make a decision and were not in agreement (which, admittedly, was rare). Finally, Sacagawea was not their guide, Edgar S. Paxson’s belief notwithstanding. L&C were under orders to follow the Missouri to where, they believed, it met a common source it shared with the Columbia. A guide wasn’t needed (they felt). Sacagawea and her husband Charbonneau were hired on as interpreters. When they finally realized they needed a guide to get them over the continental divide they hired a Lemhi Shoshone man they called Old Toby. After getting them across the mountains and part of the way down the Clearwater River Toby apparently realized that these strange foreigners, who kept insisting on traveling down the rapid-infested Clearwater in fragile canoes, were totally bonkers and so dipped out in the middle of the night, having helped himself to two of L&C’s horses. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/34 "2025-08-19T20:14:14Z")
At the first screenings of the Lumière Brothers’ film _Arrival of a Train at La Ciotat_, the audience members did not jump up in panic and run screaming from the image of a train barreling toward the camera. > **[Fun Facts And Murky Legends About “The Arrival Of The Train At La Ciotat...](https://silentology.wordpress.com/2022/02/14/fun-facts-and-murky-legends-about-the-arrival-of-the-train-at-la-ciotat-station-1896/)** > > We’re all familiar with the Lumière brothers’ 50-second early film The Arrival of the Train at La Ciotat Station (1895), which shows exactly what it says it does. Of all the early films… ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/35 "2025-08-19T20:54:47Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > I think it probably is Graham Hancock: Pretty sure this is the guy they both cited. So disappointing when someone you know and like believes in nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/36 "2025-08-19T21:45:51Z")
The Great Chicago Fire was not America’s worst fire in terms of damage and death. The worst was the Great Peshtigo Fire, centered around Pestigo, Wisconsin. Chicago Fire: Destroyed about three square miles of the city, with 300 deaths. Peshtigo fire: Destroyed 1.2-1.5 million acres, with 1500-2000 deaths. Few have heard of it because it was the same day as the Chicago fire, and Peshtigo was not a major city. News of the fire took a day or two to reach newspapers, whereas Chicago made headlines immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/37 "2025-08-19T22:13:02Z")
> [@Lancia](#): > > Rather, they were the leaders of elite, hand-picked military unit that had been commissioned for one purpose: to find a navigable water route between the Mississippi (via the Missouri) and the west coast, via the Columbia. The US having just made the Louisiana Purchase, a group of white men informing the natives who their new overlords was an added bonus. Everything else: observations of the flora and fauna, notes on tributaries of the Mississippi / Missouri / Columbia, and documenting the geography of the Great Plains and Rockies were all secondary objectives. You contradict yourself: Finding a navigable water route was their primary objective, but not their only one. They did indeed have many secondary objectives, which basically amounted to “find anything else worthwhile that you can”. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Few have heard of it because it was the same day as the Chicago fire Which has led to some speculation of a common origin (possibly a meteor shower) for both. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2025, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/38 "2025-08-19T23:19:25Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > At the first screenings of the Lumière Brothers’ film _Arrival of a Train at La Ciotat_, the audience members did not jump up in panic and run screaming from the image of a train barreling toward the camera. Good one. Also there was very limited panic caused by the radio broadcast of War of the Worlds. The newspapers blew it all out of proportion due to a rivalry between them and radio. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/39 "2025-08-20T00:30:31Z")
On the subject of newspapers blowing things out of proportion, what is the Straight Dope on the Donner Party resorting to cannibalism? On one hand I’m pretty sure there’s archeological evidence that they did, but on the other hand the sensationalist newspapers of the time exaggerated the cannibalism aspect, so I am guessing it wasn’t really to the extent most people believe. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/40 "2025-08-20T00:41:15Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > I am guessing it wasn’t really to the extent most people believe. Sure, up to a point cannibalism isn’t really sensational. 🤪 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251.md?page=3)