# Historical myths DEBUNKED! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2025, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251 "2025-08-19T02:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/141 "2025-08-23T17:34:25Z")
Just reading _1776_ by David McCullough makes that abundantly clear. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/142 "2025-08-23T17:54:56Z")
“For Want of A Nail” is a history of North America from the 1770s to the 1970s - in a world where the Rebels lost the revolution. The most amusing part is the way that things that happened in both versions of history (like Washington being appointed head of the rebels’ army) are interpreted as clear foreshadowing of eventual failure for the rebels (whereas in our history they are interpreted as setbacks at worst). The author briefly imagines a successful rebellion - which he thinks would require firing Washington. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/143 "2025-08-23T18:22:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Napoleon Bonaparte I was short.” > > According to historical records, he was 5’2, which does sound short – except the the French at that time used the “_ponce_” instead of the imperial inch. The _ponce_ was around 2mm longer than the inch, so in a more familiar English measure, he was closer to 5’6. Well, he was made fun of for being short. so there is that.. > [@Moriarty](#): > > Similarly, ninjas didn’t use to dress in all black. > > That trope comes from Kabuki theatre. Good one. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/144 "2025-08-23T18:53:07Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > The author briefly imagines a successful rebellion - which he thinks would require firing Washington. Then again, in “Crossroads of Destiny”, H. Beam Piper envisioned an alternate universe where General Washington is shot dead at the battle of Germantown, and his place at the head of the Continental Army and in American history is taken by Benedict Arnold. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/145 "2025-08-23T19:19:43Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Why didn’t they mention Kool Aid? I was not even alive at the time, so I am no expert witness. I am much more familiar with Tom Wolfe’s semi-fictional\* “The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test” which I think cemented the “drink the kool aid” myth. I mean, the kool aid at those early psychedelic parties was laced it huge doses of LSD (acid). I have taken big, big doses and these people were doing well above my limits. It is my belief (somewhat unfounded) that “the acid test” as a phrase was popularised by the antics of the Grateful Dead, Ken Kesey et al. \* I’m not at all sure how fictional this was, these people were doing big doses. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/146 "2025-08-23T20:15:18Z")
You probably know this, but the name of the Kesey Acid Tests was a play on the existing term “acid test”, referring to a chemical test that uses nitric acid to test for the presence of gold. It was used for over a century before the Kesey parties. As for popularizing the term, [Google’s ngram viewer](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=acid+test&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3) shows the term having its peak of popularity around 1920, declining gradually until about 1980, after which it remains fairly level. I don’t see any evidence of a rise in or after the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/147 "2025-08-23T21:10:26Z")
Regarding the Paul Revere myth, it’s telling that a rider who was more successful than Revere that night, William Dawes, hasn’t even been mentioned yet in this thread: “The poem by [Henry Wadsworth Longfellow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Wadsworth_Longfellow), “[Paul Revere’s Ride](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Revere%27s_Ride_(poem))”, has been criticized by modern historians for overstating the role of Revere in the night’s events. Revere’s may have been a better story, but Dawes and Prescott were more successful in achieving their missions.” “The difference in Revere’s and Dawes’s achievement and legacy is examined by Canadian journalist [Malcolm Gladwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Gladwell) in his book _[The Tipping Point](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tipping_Point)_ , where he concludes that Revere would be classified as a [connector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connector_(social)) whereas Dawes was an “ordinary man.”” > **[William Dawes | Legacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dawes#Legacy)** > > The poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, "Paul Revere's Ride", has been criticized by modern historians for overstating the role of Revere in the night's events. Revere's may have been a better story, but Dawes and Prescott were more successful in achieving their missions. In 1896 Helen F. Moore, dismayed that William Dawes had been forgotten, penned a parody of Longfellow's poem. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/148 "2025-08-23T21:13:34Z")
> [@Civil\_Guy](#): > > I recall attending a talk that argued that Washington’s military genius lay in pulling off some excellent retreats. He was referred to in his lifetime as “the American Fabius”, after Roman general [Fabius the Delayer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintus_Fabius_Maximus_Verrucosus), who defeated Hannibal by retreating, attacking his supply lines an only attacking when he was sure of victory. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/149 "2025-08-24T01:10:37Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > I was not even alive at the time, so I am no expert witness. > > I am much more familiar with Tom Wolfe’s semi-fictional\* “The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test” which I think cemented the “drink the kool aid” myth. I _was_ alive at the time, and I believe I had actually read _The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test_ prior to the Jonestown incident (as it had been published about a decade earlier). “Drink the Kool-Aid” was simply not a common expression until after the Jonestown incident, and did not take on its current meaning immediately but kind of seeped into the language over time (years, IIRC). The usage has basically no connection with the Merry Pranksters. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/150 "2025-08-24T01:15:31Z")
If “Dawes” rhymed with better words, we’d know him better. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/151 "2025-08-24T01:18:30Z")
Sit on your paws, and hold you applause, while I tell you all of Doctor Dawes. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/152 "2025-08-24T02:10:10Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Drink the Kool-Aid” was simply not a common expression until after the Jonestown incident, and did not take on its current meaning immediately but kind of seeped into the language over time (years, IIRC). I think you are absolutely correct in this assessment. IIRC. Which is not a given. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/153 "2025-08-24T04:19:05Z")
Listen my children, don’t bear your claws, While I tell of the ride of William Dawes … ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/154 "2025-08-24T05:37:31Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Drink the Kool-Aid” was simply not a common expression until after the Jonestown incident, Ignorance fought. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/155 "2025-08-24T07:29:15Z")
Other riders included Samuel Prescott and: The “girl” who warned of the British was Sybil Ludington, a 16-year-old who rode approximately 40 miles on April 26, 1777, through a stormy night to alert colonial militias that British troops were advancing on Danbury, Connecticut. Her courageous ride, which was longer than Paul Revere’s famous journey, helped rally the militia to encounter the British in a successful fight at Ridgefield, Connecticut. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/156 "2025-08-24T07:35:23Z")
Also from the war of English Aggression 😁 The battle of Saratoga did not take place in Saratoga; it took place in Stillwater, NY and people from there are still salty about it (college friend). The Battle of Saratoga monument is in neither place; it’s in the village of Victory, part of Schuylerville, NY. I defy you to pronounce the last name. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/157 "2025-08-24T07:40:16Z")
Yeah, just think of those ‘screamer’ prank videos. You **know** you’re looking at a computer screen, but that doesn’t stop you experiencing a nasty jumpscare when a screaming corpse face suddenly jumps up. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/158 "2025-08-24T08:10:26Z")
Then there were the girls in Scituate, Massachusetts, Rebecca and Abigail Bates, who scared away the British from landing by playing the fife and drum. 1814. Different war. ---
**Author:** ![DETXL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/detxl/32/19366_2.png) [@DETXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DETXL)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/159 "2025-08-24T09:45:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Drink the Kool-Aid” was simply not a common expression until after the Jonestown incident, and did not take on its current meaning immediately but kind of seeped into the language over time ( **years, IIRC** ) (emphasis mine) Well… in the sense that, as a phrase, “drink the Kool-Aid” would wind up in a slang dictionary, it might have taken that long. That said, I suspect the association was basically immediate, starting with other religious figures and rapidly branching out—probably aided by the fact that you would not have needed to explain what you meant if you described someone as “drinking the Kool-Aid.” A wire story from January 14th, 1979 on Church of God leader Herbert Armstrong quotes Garner Ted Armstrong as saying > One woman told my sister in California that if Herbert W. Armstrong told her to drink that Kool-Aid she would do it. That frightens me beyond words. In February of that year, students at Queen’s University protested a speaking appearance by People’s Temple counsel Mark Lane by having “cups of Kool-Aid for the students lined up for the speech” (Lane had previously either been threatened by, or possibly staged, several packets of Kool-Aid left on his porch). A letter to the editor in June, 1979 about a reverend at a Christian Academy who berated children for playing “sinful, paganistic” rock music concludes: > I’m sure that the children of that school will have a great education experience, but boy, I wouldn’t drink the Kool-Aid. A July, 1979 article on Carter’s struggling presidency (described as “Jonestown-on-the-Potomac”): > Taking his cue from Rep. Mickey Edwards, President Carter fired some of his top helpers, apparently because he thought they were disloyal. Edwards already had let four staffers go. Then he skeedaddled off to Taiwan—a nice place to get away from the telephones. Nobody in the White House or Edwards’ office is drinking Kool-Aid these days. etc. (Other sources on that shakeup contain variants on that, i.e.: “‘Don’t drink the Kool-Aid’ was the gag of the day in the White House press room when mass offers to resign were announced.”) Those usages are literal, ish, but by February 1980 another letter to the editor says: > They [military leaders] couldn’t get away with these threats and actions if we didn’t keep on drinking the Kool-aid that spending billions of dollars in far away places is making us more safe and secure. An October 11, 1981 article on the PATCO strike asks: > why, if their demands are laughable, have so many controllers stuck with them so long? What made them “drink the Kool-Aid,” as one non-striking controller in Memphis put it? (like with Carter, variations on that phrase are used in other contemporary articles about the strike) And so on; an op-ed in 1982 uses “drinking the Kool-Aid” about Ronald Reagan and the MX missile. Naturally, it’s always Kool-Aid, and the canonical phrase _drink_ + _definite article_ is established early, i.e. it’s never “drinking some Kool-Aid” or “Reagan supporters are drinking poisoned Kool Aid” or “he really drank Kool-Aid”; the focus is also invariably on the consumer, i.e. there is no variant “poison the Kool-Aid” for whomever the writer wants to compare to Jim Jones. For what it’s worth, mentions of “Kool-Aid” in conjunction with “Jim Jones,” “People’s Temple,” etc. for the year following the event on [newspapers.com](http://newspapers.com) outweigh mentions of “Fla-Vor-Aid”/”Flavor Aid” by at least an order of magnitude (2,877 to 268)—well over two orders of magnitude for stories in the weeks immediately afterwards—so I do not think there was any significant period of time when the mainstream press was avoiding mentioning Kool-Aid. Interviews with escaped cult members explicitly mention drinking Kool-Aid in previous rituals, which also probably cemented the association. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2025, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251/160 "2025-08-24T11:42:22Z")
The story of Revere vs. Dawes merits a rap battle. So, I enlisted the help of a poem generator to make it happen: Revere (strutting): Yo, I’m Paul Revere, the legend you cheer, I spread the alarm, made the message clear. Statues, poems, history books—see? America rides through the saddle with me. Dawes (stepping up, annoyed): Name’s William Dawes, don’t forget my cause, I galloped that night with the same bold jaws. But my rhymes don’t stick, they just kinda stall, ‘Cause nothing in English rhymes clean with “Dawes,” y’all. Revere: I’m the rhyme scheme king, every kid recites, “Listen my children” on schoolroom nights. You? Just a footnote, history’s haze, I got Longfellow bars, you got awkward phrase. Dawes (defiant): You got poems, fame, and bronze horse stalls, I got grit, man—I still rode those halls. Your rhymes sound pretty, but truth’s the flaw, You weren’t alone, man—I answered the call. Prescott (busting through the beat): Hold up, hold up—y’all forgot me, Doctor Samuel Prescott, third MC. I’m the one who actually made it through, Reached Concord town while y’all withdrew. [Mic drop x3] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-debunked/1022251.md?page=9)