# Historical myths that reallly get on your tits **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744 "2014-11-16T02:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/121 "2014-11-18T16:52:26Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > That the Hawaiian Islanders happily and voluntarily chose to become American territory in order to throw off the yoke of an oppressive monarchy. The fact is, American planters overthrew the monarch, denied civil rights to the Hawaiians, and then asked Washington to take them in to avoid paying duties on their pineapple exports. Which the US did reluctantly. Actually the opposite. Queen Liliʻuokalani unilaterally abrogated the Constitution. She took all rights away from everyone but her Royal family (all Property would come from the Crown), made herself a absolute Monarch, and completely disenfranchised all White people on the islands- even those who had been born there (Lorrin A Thurston had not only been born on the Islands, his parents had too.). A very racist move. The Queen had virtually no support from even the natives. No-one fought to support her. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/122 "2014-11-18T16:52:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, no doubt slavery was part of it, but it’s not like that was THE core basis, as in the Civil War. That seems inconsistent for Texas. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/123 "2014-11-18T16:56:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In WWII, the Germans were defeated by the Soviets. Period. The Nazis never had a chance against the Russians and regardless of their short-term success, the Germans could never have held out in the long run against the manpower and resources available to the Soviets. They would have defeated Germany and the long run, and, indeed, for all purposes had broken Germany by the time D-Day came around. D-Day and the subsequent Western Front activity was little more than a mopping-up operation. > . WWII was won by three things- Soviet manpower, American manufacturing and British pigheadedness. If the Brits had rolled over, the Soviets would have been alone, and would likely have collapsed- in fact Stalin reportedly almost did so. The Russian contributed the most men, the Yanks the most money and the Brits were in it the longest. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/124 "2014-11-18T17:01:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That the pyramids were built by aliens. In fact it seems almost every great piece of ancient work is said to be built by aliens. They dont give our ancestors nearly enough credit for brains. This is the one that really pisses me off. If not this, it’s drugs - they must have done X under the influence of drugs. Listen bub. Just because YOU (general you) can’t conceive of something amazing without being high as all fuck doesn’t mean no one can. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/125 "2014-11-18T17:01:53Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Richard III didn’t have the Princes in the Tower killed, or, it was all Tudor propaganda against Richard. He didn’t. Henry Tudor did. RIII had no motive, Tudor did- since he had no claim to the throne if they were alive. Not to mention Henry was well known for killing off claimants, and RIII wasn’t. Finally there’s the fact the Tudor didnt claim RIII killed the Princes until years had passed, after he had time to get rid of the evidence and witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/126 "2014-11-18T17:07:43Z")
Myth: that the Christians burned the Library of Alexandria. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/127 "2014-11-18T17:13:30Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > On the Negro Baseball Leagues and Jackie Robinson. > > First, Jackie Robinson is not that big of a hero. Truth was that while he was good, he wasnt even the top choices of the major leagues. He was chosen because they knew he could fit in the best. > > Second, black baseball players were NOT happy Robinson left, nor did they ever want the top Negro talent to go to the majors. What they wanted was a Negro League - Major League MERGER. Where say the entire Homestead Grays, players, coaches, trainers, everyone, would as a team play right along with the major league teams like the Yankees and White Sox. The negro players knew that if they lost their top talent they would lose their fan base - the negro community. Which is exactly what happened. When Robinson left the black newspapers quit reporting on Negro League games and soon all the talent left and everyone left was out of a job. Thats players, coaches, managers - only thing left was to sell peanuts. > > Third, what the majors wanted was a monopoly on baseball. MLB had been granted immunity from the trust laws and they soon drove every other baseball league out of business. The Negro leagues was the final one remaining. > > Sidenote: According to Ken Burns there had been around 400 games over the years between MLB teams and NBL teams. The negro teams won about 3/4 of them. > > So really, MLB when they retired Jackie’s number 22 and made him such a hero, what they were really doing was a business decision. One to drive away their competition and at the same team, increase their audience. Their was nothing noble or altruistic about it. Obviously people whose livelihood depended on the Negro Leagues didn’t want them to cease operation, that’s hardly surprising. But I think you’re selling Jackie Robinson short. No one claims that he was the absolute greatest baseball player ever, or that he was somehow the driving force behind integration. What he did do was bear up with grace and dignity and charisma, very much in the public eye, under truly massive amounts of hatred. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/128 "2014-11-18T18:03:34Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > White was sentenced to seven years in prison (he could have gotten life), and paroled after five. He committed suicide two years after his release. WHich should SUPPORT the contention that Dan White was mentally ill, shouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/129 "2014-11-18T18:08:57Z")
Robinson was also a _very_ good baseball player. Rookie of the Year, MVP, six World Series, and six All-Star games. “Debunkings” like “Reagan had NOTHING to do with it”\* or “Lincoln was gay” or “Obama is an atheist” are at least as irritating as myths. Regards, Shodan \*Where “it” = “anything good”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/130 "2014-11-18T18:11:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, no doubt slavery was part of it, but it’s not like that was THE core basis, as in the Civil War. But at the Alamo in particular, it’s notable that the two commanders, Travis and Bowie, were both slave owners, and the only people who gained freedom as a direct result of the battle was their two slaves. One result of the Texas War of Independence was that blacks in Texas remained enslaved for 29 more years than if Mexico had won the war. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/131 "2014-11-18T18:29:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He didn’t. Henry Tudor did. RIII had no motive, Tudor did- since he had no claim to the throne if they were alive. Not to mention Henry was well known for killing off claimants, and RIII wasn’t. Finally there’s the fact the Tudor didnt claim RIII killed the Princes until years had passed, after he had time to get rid of the evidence and witnesses. For me, what always made me think that RIII probably didn’t kill the princes was that if he did, he kept it a secret. As far as he knew, he was going to reign for 30 years, and someone was going to ask about them at some point. I don’t know RIII, and can’t argue that he would never murder anyone, but I think if he did murder the princes in order to secure his claim to the throne, he would have _told people they were dead_, and given them a big royal funeral. It’s not like Dr. Rodgers would be doing an autopsy, and telling Logan and Briscoe that she found linen fibers in their nasal passages. > [@astorian](#): > > WHich should SUPPORT the contention that Dan White was mentally ill, shouldn’t it? I never said I had an opinion one way or another, but there is a form of psychosis that can arise from untreated depression, and there is also a psychotic form of bipolar disorder. I did not live in California in the 70s, nor was I old enough then to have any opinion of Harvey Milk and Mayor Moscone; I am not in a position to say that Dan White was properly adjudicated, but I do think he would have been better off serving time in a psychiatric institution rather than prison. That doesn’t seem to be how California worked at the time, though. “Diminished Capacity” was a new name for “Temporary Insanity,” an essentially meant that it was a mitigating factor, but not an exculpating one, because supposedly someone convicted under it was “better now.” There was also pretty heavy public opinion against White, and I think sentencing him to a psychiatric facility rather than prison, even for a longer time, would have been very, very unpopular. I don’t know how much leeway the judge had in sentencing. Maybe White needed prison time under statute. As far as his suicide, though, his life was very difficult after prison. He lived outside of San Francisco for his own safety, because it was thought he was likely a target of revenge. His wife left him, and he was Catholic, so that was a blow, and they had children. I think his wife was returned to where her family was, and that would have made seeing his children very difficult. It was a burden for an emotionally healthy person, and White was not emotionally healthy. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/132 "2014-11-18T18:31:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He didn’t. Henry Tudor did. RIII had no motive, Tudor did- since he had no claim to the throne if they were alive. Not to mention Henry was well known for killing off claimants, and RIII wasn’t. Finally there’s the fact the Tudor didnt claim RIII killed the Princes until years had passed, after he had time to get rid of the evidence and witnesses. …spurious claims that he banged their sister on the other hand… oh!!! HVIIR agreed to marry Elizabeth of York a year before he invaded England and before he had any way of doing so. The Dowager Queen and her party would have never agreed to the alliance unless she had reason to believe that her sons were dead. While Henry was not fully secure for many years and had to deal with pretenders, the line of succession as generally acknowledged meant that the two best realistic claimant were mommy dearest on the Lancastrian side and his wife on the other. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/133 "2014-11-18T19:10:40Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > For me, what always made me think that RIII probably didn’t kill the princes was that if he did, he kept it a secret. As far as he knew, he was going to reign for 30 years, and someone was going to ask about them at some point. I don’t know RIII, and can’t argue that he would never murder anyone, but I think if he did murder the princes in order to secure his claim to the throne, he would have _told people they were dead_, and given them a big royal funeral. It’s not like Dr. Rodgers would be doing an autopsy, and telling Logan and Briscoe that she found linen fibers in their nasal passages. “I found wounds on the back of the neck consistent with a large axe. Based on lividity and liver temperature, I put the time of death about 550 years ago.” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/134 "2014-11-18T19:11:13Z")
The whole Ricardian thing strikes me as bizzare. It was absolutely characteristic of princes at the time to off rivals with potential claims to the throne - certainly the Tudors did it all the time (while of course painting Richard as a monster), and so had many of the contenders during the Wars of the Roses - so whether Richard III did it or not is hardly an issue in evaluating his character - such murders were simply part and parcel of monarchy in that era. Did the Tudors go out of their way to propagandize Richard as a villian, when he was a perfectly acceptable king? Certainly. Did Richard off the princes? Most probably. Both can be true at the same time … ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/135 "2014-11-18T20:26:20Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The whole Ricardian thing strikes me as bizzare. > > It was absolutely characteristic of princes at the time to off rivals with potential claims to the throne - certainly the Tudors did it all the time (while of course painting Richard as a monster), and so had many of the contenders during the Wars of the Roses - so whether Richard III did it or not is hardly an issue in evaluating his character - such murders were simply part and parcel of monarchy in that era. > > Did the Tudors go out of their way to propagandize Richard as a villian, when he was a perfectly acceptable king? Certainly. Did Richard off the princes? Most probably. Both can be true at the same time … Sure. If RIII saw them as rivals, he might have. But they werent- not to his claim. They were only rivals to Tudors claim. And, there no evidence whatsoever that RIII had anything to do with their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/136 "2014-11-18T20:40:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure. If RIII saw them as rivals, he might have. But they werent- not to his claim. They were only rivals to Tudors claim. > > And, there no evidence whatsoever that RIII had anything to do with their deaths. Huh? How could they not be rivals? They had a better claim to the throne than he did (assuming they were not illigitimate - declaring kids illigitimate was another thing, after murder, that was common in this era! Particularly common among the Tudors as well … both Mary 1 and Elizabeth 1 were, famously, declared illigitimate at one point or another). As for “proof”, there is none that they were killed by anyone - they simply “dissapeared” … but that “disappearance” followed several steps taken by Richard to secure the throne from them (putting them in the Tower, having them declared illigitimate, having nobles who supported their rights excecuted, etc.). Point is that all of this was absolutely guarden-variety normal for English monarchs at the time. Sure the Tudors painted him as a bad guy, but then again they did the same, and worse. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/137 "2014-11-18T20:41:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > WWII was won by three things- Soviet manpower, American manufacturing and British pigheadedness. If the Brits had rolled over, the Soviets would have been alone, and would likely have collapsed- in fact Stalin reportedly almost did so. > > The Russian contributed the most men, the Yanks the most money and the Brits were in it the longest. Let’s not forget China! Also, in per capita terms, consider Poland and Yugoslavia, among other places! Let’s not forget India either, source of the largest all-volunteer military the world has ever seen. Sure, they were fighting to repel the Japanese, but they were also fighting elsewhere, _in the midst of a famine at home_, doing the bidding of a government led by a Prime Minister with, in his staff’s words, “Hitler-like attitudes” towards them: [What Leopold Amery denounced as Churchill’s “Hitler-like attitude” to India manifested itself most starkly during a famine, caused by a combination of war and mismanagement, that claimed between one and two million lives in Bengal in 1943. Urgently beseeched by Amery and the Indian viceroy to release food stocks for India, Churchill responded with a telegram asking why Gandhi hadn’t died yet.](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/08/13/exit-wounds) ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/138 "2014-11-18T20:48:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > That the pyramids were built by aliens. In fact it seems almost every great piece of ancient work is said to be built by aliens. They dont give our ancestors nearly enough credit for brains. Also that they were built by slave labor. Nope, contractors. At least this is true of the Great Pyramid, and I think all the rest in Egypt. It also originally covered in a gleaming white shell. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/139 "2014-11-18T20:58:54Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > “I found wounds on the back of the neck consistent with a large axe. Based on lividity and liver temperature, I put the time of death about 550 years ago.” “The UnSub is a white male, aged 25-40, probably employed in a profession that requires heavy labor, because he has to have a lot of upper body strength, and this isn’t his first kill, because there are no hesitation marks. The axe was not a weapon of opportunity. It’s his personal possession, and meaningful to him.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/140 "2014-11-18T21:07:35Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Also that they were built by slave labor. Nope, contractors. Do you have a cite that is not from that goofy Egyptian archaeologist? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744.md?page=8)