# Historical myths that reallly get on your tits **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744 "2014-11-16T02:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/161 "2014-11-19T16:17:43Z")
**The McDonald’s coffee lawsuit.** People always bring this up as an example of a frivolous lawsuit, and what an idiot this woman was, suing for millions because her coffee was hot!!1?? Well actually, the coffee was 190 degrees, she suffered third degree burns to her groin and genitals, was hospitalized for 8 days, the damage was severe enough that it required skin grafts, and she then had 2 years of additional medical treatments. All she originally wanted from McDonald’s was $20,000 to cover her medical costs, they offered $800. The jury ended up awarding her $160,000 plus $2.7 million in punitive damages, which ended up being reduced to less than $600,000. So no, it wasn’t a frivolous case, and the plaintiff was in fact very reasonable in what she was asking for. **The murder of Kitty Genovese and the “bystander effect.”** Did you know that almost 40 people watched a woman get stabbed and raped from their apartment complex and no one did anything or called 9-1-1 because they all thought someone else would do it!!? Uh no, because that’s not really what happened. > [@](#): > > While Genovese’s neighbors were vilified by the articles, “thirty-eight onlookers who did nothing” is a misconception. The New York Times article begins, “For more than half an hour thirty-eight respectable, law-abiding citizens in Queens watched a killer stalk and stab a woman in three separate attacks in Kew Gardens.” However, a 2007 study found many of the purported facts about the murder to be unfounded.[45] The study found “no evidence for the presence of 38 witnesses, or that witnesses observed the murder, or that witnesses remained inactive”.[46] > > None of the witnesses observed the attacks in their entirety. Because of the layout of the complex and the fact that the attacks took place in different locations, no witness saw the entire sequence of events. Most only heard portions of the incident without realizing its seriousness, a few saw only small portions of the initial assault, and no witnesses directly saw the final attack and rape, in an exterior hallway.[1] Additionally, after the initial attack punctured her lungs, leading to her eventual death from asphyxiation, it is unlikely that Genovese was able to scream at any volume.[47] Only one witness, Joseph Fink, was aware she was stabbed in the first attack, and only Karl Ross (the neighbor who called police) was aware of it in the second attack. Many were entirely unaware that an assault or homicide was in progress; some thought that what they saw or heard was a lovers’ quarrel, a drunken brawl, or a group of friends leaving the bar when Moseley first approached Genovese. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/162 "2014-11-19T16:19:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So, they weren’t slaves, they were just men who had to do back-breaking, unpaid labour under threat of violence by privileged elites ? So glad we nuanced that one up 😃 There are Peasants, Serfs and slaves. The difference is important. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/163 "2014-11-19T16:19:32Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’ll agree that he did well. > My bigger point was that what the Negro league teams wanted was a league merger, not to have their best cherry picked. The Negro League team owners wanted a merger. This was in their interest. You’re claiming, though, that the Negro League players preferred a merger. What’s your evidence for this? I do know that Satchel Paige was upset that Jackie Robinson was chosen over him to be the one who broke the color line. Many of the Negro League teams were in the same cities as MLB teams. The only way they could have survived a merger would have been to move (where?) or to maintain segregation. That is, you’d have had black-only teams playing against white-only teams. I doubt the black public would have been satisfied with this, and I’m sure the black press (e.g. the Chicago Defender) wouldn’t have supported it. I suppose some black players might have been in favor of it, since it would have meant more jobs, but I’ve never seen a quote from any of them saying so. You’ve also claimed that Robinson “wasnt even the top choices of the major leagues.” In fact, most major league owners were against integration. Branch Rickey was going out on a limb when he decided to integrate his team. His selection of Robinson was based on a number of things, including the fact that Robinson had a history of standing up for his rights in a constructive way. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/164 "2014-11-19T16:55:18Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > You’ve also claimed that Robinson “wasnt even the top choices of the major leagues.” In fact, most major league owners were against integration. Branch Rickey was going out on a limb when he decided to integrate his team. His selection of Robinson was based on a number of things, including the fact that Robinson had a history of standing up for his rights in a constructive way. Yes there were many reasons. He was college educated. He was more articulate than 99% of the white players. He was smart enough to understand what the consequences of any bad reactions by him might be. Which leads people to sell him short as a player. He was a fantastic player. My father was a diehard Brooklyn fan. Robinson won over the fans by what he did on the field. He deserved being in the Hall of Fame. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/165 "2014-11-19T20:08:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There are Peasants, Serfs and slaves. The difference is important. I agree. I also would opine that the distinction is often tenuous. Particularly that between serfs and slaves - the word “serf” itself having to do with the servile condition ; and the helots of Sparta having been preciously close to (but not quite) being serfs instead of slaves. Freedom’s a spectrum and all that. But that is really a scholar’s distinction, if we’re being honest, neh ? The average Joe, faced with the condition of the 'gyptian peasant circa 2500 BC, would absolutely dub it to be _de facto_ slavery IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/166 "2014-11-19T20:13:03Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > They were “slaves” in the same way that American conscripts during WW2 were “slaves”. 😉 Eh, you’ve got a point, but my counter-point would be : you only get conscripted once, for a few years (which, admittedly, often means “for the rest of your life” ;)). But you do, or rather did, get corvée’d your entire misbegotten life. And while in principle tax and corvée are one and the same, in actual practice I think I’d rather shell out a thousand bucks now and again than shlep 5 tons of limestone up a man-made mountain, whipped all along, uphill both ways in the snow etc… Even for all the proto-beer in all of Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/167 "2014-11-19T20:18:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I agree. I also would opine that the distinction is often tenuous. Particularly that between serfs and slaves - the word “serf” itself having to do with the servile condition ; and the helots of Sparta having been preciously close to (but not quite) being serfs instead of slaves. Freedom’s a spectrum and all that. > > But that is really a scholar’s distinction, if we’re being honest, neh ? The average Joe, faced with the condition of the 'gyptian peasant circa 2500 BC, would absolutely consider it to be _de facto_ slavery IMO. The average Joe would be horrified to be faced with the conditions of the 'gyptian aristocrat circa 2500 BC. 😃 But no, I do not think “slavery” is a good description - not because their condition was not horrible by today’s standards, but because “slavery” existed in their society - it was applied mostly to prisioners of war, but could also be imposed as a result of incurring an unpayable debt. In short, slaves existed at a level _below_ that of peasants - whose obligation was to pay taxes, but who was not a prisoner or in debt-bondage (yet). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/168 "2014-11-19T20:42:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The average Joe would be horrified to be faced with the conditions of the 'gyptian aristocrat circa 2500 BC. 😃 … well played, damn you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/169 "2014-11-19T21:03:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The average Joe would be horrified to be faced with the conditions of the 'gyptian aristocrat circa 2500 BC. 😃 Quite so. When it’s hot outside, Joe can turn on the A/C and feel great. Could Pharaoh? When he’s sick, Joe can see a doctor who actually knows how to cure him. Could Pharaoh? Joe can go to the supermarket and get any food he wants at any time of year. Could Pharaoh? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/170 "2014-11-19T21:13:48Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Quite so. > > When it’s hot outside, Joe can turn on the A/C and feel great. Could Pharaoh? > > When he’s sick, Joe can see a doctor who actually knows how to cure him. Could Pharaoh? > > Joe can go to the supermarket and get any food he wants at any time of year. Could Pharaoh? Egyptian medicine was considered the best in the ancient world … > [@](#): > > Can’t beat that headache? Why not try an incantation to falcon-headed Horus, or a soothing poultice of “Ass’s grease”? According to researchers, 3,500-year-old papyri show ancient Egyptians turning to both their gods and medicine to banish headache pain. “The border between magic and medicine is a modern invention; such distinctions did not exist for ancient healers,” explain Dr. Axel Karenberg, a medical historian, and Dr. C. Leitz, an Egyptologist, both of the University of Cologne, Germany. > > In a recent issue of the journal Cephalalgia, the researchers report on their study of papyrus scrolls dating from the early New Kingdom period of Egyptian history, about 1550 BC. Ancient Egyptian healers had only the barest understanding of anatomy or medicine. Indeed, while the head was considered the “leader” of the body, the brain itself was considered relatively unimportant–as evidenced by the fact that it was usually discarded during the mummification process. > > Headache, that timeless bane of humanity, was usually ascribed to the activity of “demons,” the German researchers write, although over time Egyptian physicians began to speculate that problems originating within the body, such as the incomplete digestion of food, might also be to blame. > > Once beset with a headache, those living under the pharaohs turned to their gods for help. One incantation sought to evoke the gods’ empathy, imagining that even immortals suffered headache pain. “‘My head! My head!’ said Horus,” reads one papyrus. “‘The side of my head!’ said Thoth. ‘Ache of my forehead,’ said Horus. ‘Upper part of my forehead!’ said Thoth.” In this way, Karenberg and Leitz write, “the patient is identified with (the gods) Horus and Thoth,” the latter being the god of magicians and wise men. The incantation continues with the sun god Ra ordering the patient to recover “up to your temples,” while the patient threatens his “headache demons” with terrible punishments (“the trunk of your body will be cut off”). > > Still, the gods may have ignored the pleas of many patients, who also turned to medicine for relief. According to one ancient text, these included a poultice made of “skull of catfish,” with the patient’s head being “rubbed therewith for four days.” Other prescriptions included stag’s horn, lotus, frankincense and a concoction made from donkey called “Ass’s grease.” Even these remedies could be divinely inspired, however. On one 4,000-year-old scroll, a boastful druggist claims that his headache cure is prepared by the goddess Isis herself. … which, sadly, wasn’t saying much. 😃 [http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptmedicine.html](http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptmedicine.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/171 "2014-11-19T21:20:46Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > **The murder of Kitty Genovese and the “bystander effect.”** Did you know that almost 40 people watched a woman get stabbed and raped from their apartment complex and no one did anything or called 9-1-1 because they all thought someone else would do it!!? > > Uh no, because that’s not really what happened. Investigation Discovery’s _A Crime to Remember_ series just did a show on this the other night. Their reasoning for Karl Ross not calling the police right away after the third attack was that he was gay and only called them after one of Kitty’s friends found her in the hallway and called to him to call the police. The police at that time made life very hard for homosexuals and Ross was afraid. They also said it was really no secret that Kitty and her female roommate were having an affair but their neighbors and friends didn’t care. That was one reason the roommate didn’t initially cooperate with the police and moved away shortly after the murder. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/172 "2014-11-19T21:25:32Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Quite so. > > When it’s hot outside, Joe can turn on the A/C and feel great. Could Pharaoh? > > When he’s sick, Joe can see a doctor who actually knows how to cure him. Could Pharaoh? > > Joe can go to the supermarket and get any food he wants at any time of year. Could Pharaoh? OTOH, Pharaoh’s women shaved from head to toe, smoked opium and didn’t wear overly much. That’s something, innit ? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/173 "2014-11-19T21:31:29Z")
Granted, sometimes they also were his sister. Everybody’s a critic… ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/174 "2014-11-19T21:40:52Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > **The McDonald’s coffee lawsuit.** … **The murder of Kitty Genovese and the “bystander effect.”** Excellent picks. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/175 "2014-11-19T21:55:35Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Granted, sometimes they also were his sister. Everybody’s a critic… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/176 "2014-11-19T22:07:34Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Quite so. > > When it’s hot outside, Joe can turn on the A/C and feel great. Could Pharaoh? > > When he’s sick, Joe can see a doctor who actually knows how to cure him. Could Pharaoh? > > Joe can go to the supermarket and get any food he wants at any time of year. Could Pharaoh? I don’t know about the Egyptians, but yes, [sort of](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_chimney) (allowing for no “turning up” [or “turn down the AC” if you’re one of those weird people]). [From yesterday](http://www.cracked.com/article_21600_6-shockingly-advanced-ideas-we-stole-from-ancient-people.html) (#4). > [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Excellent picks. Coffee lady was also found 20% liable, so it wasn’t like they were saying it was all McDonald’s fault. The company was just found to be responsible for the majority of damages. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/177 "2014-11-19T22:53:03Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > “Let them eat cake.” The explanation I read about this, way back in 1982, was an excerpt from some Journal of Ancient French Language that the local newspaper was quoting. The researcher had (re)discovered the term\* \*kheke \*which was already antiquated at the time but refers to the crumby coating on the inside of a bread pan or the bottom of an oven after you remove the bread that was baked therein. The point was that the foreign-born queen wasn’t so stupid as to say, “If they don’t have bread, let them eat cake.” but was pragmatically telling the palace cooks “They are begging for bread so give them the dregs, discards, and crumbs from the royal ovens.” which repaints the incident as a less airheaded (though not necessarily more compassionate) response to the situation. Regardless, her response only served to piss off the masses that much more. Like the researcher’s explanation, the more favorable view of Marie Antoinette returned to being buried under the more entertaining mythology. –G \*My apologies, I did not study French, I cannot remember the proper spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/178 "2014-11-19T23:41:59Z")
The original saying was in french, and used the term “brioche”. Nothing that sounded like cake. Also, Marie never said it. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/179 "2014-11-20T00:26:16Z")
It’s not quite in the same league vis a vis historical importance as “The New Deal didn’t end the Depression” or “Hitler was an atheist”, but one that irritates me is “Each clan in the Scottish Highlands had its own unique tartan, worn only by members of that particular clan, and it was possible to identify a man just by looking at his plaid.” No. Highland weavers wove tartan in whatever patterns they liked. The raw wool was colored with local dyes, of course, and those dyes _did_ vary from region to region in Scotland (tartan was worn by Lowlanders, too). So it was possible to distinguish tartans from different regions, which _suggested_ likely clan affiliations (a man in a Atholl tartan was more likely to be a Murray than a Macleod…) but did not definitely state them (…but he could also be a Robertson or a Stewart). > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > …and sliding head first into First Base slows you down. Those are facts. Was that a typo? What sort of idiot _slides_ into the only base you’re allowed to overrun? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744/180 "2014-11-20T01:48:40Z")
You’re going too far in the other direction, now. There isn’t an economist alive who would claim that the New Deal ended the Depression. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-myths-that-reallly-get-on-your-tits/704744.md?page=10)