# Historical questions about God and the Bible

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-questions-about-god-and-the-bible/426584>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [November 15, 2007, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-questions-about-god-and-the-bible/426584 "2007-11-15T20:28:49Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-questions-about-god-and-the-bible/426584/61 "2007-11-20T05:53:42Z")

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[QUOTE=unconventional]  
I seem to be muddling Arab history with Islam and faith. I understand that Christianized Arabs believe the Genesis ancestral story of Abraham and Ishmael, especially if the Christianization took place after the introduction of Islam.  
The idea that only Arab Muslims consider themselves to be descendants of Abraham and Ishmael makes sense to me. The Persians are Muslims who believe in Ishmael but don’t consider themselves to be his descendants is understandable.

What I don’t understand are the pre-Islam Arab beliefs. If Islam is out of the equation, do all Arabs believe they are descendants of Abraham and Ishmael despite their actual faith? Is it accurate to say that all Arabs consider Genesis to be historical record and not a faith based story?  
[/QUOTE]

I think the belief that some Arab tribes were descended from Ishmael already existed before Mohammed but I don’t know exactly how old the belief is. It’s probably safe to say that virtually all _Muslims_ believe that Arabs are descended from Ishmael and that Abraham was a historical person. It isalso true that some non-Muslim Arabs believe that. It cannot be said that all non-Muslim Arabs believe it. There is such a thing as secular and atheist Arabs.

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**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-questions-about-god-and-the-bible/426584/62 "2007-11-20T07:12:56Z")

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[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic [/QUOTE]  
There is such a thing as secular and atheist Arabs.  
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Exactly. I just wanted to know if the lineage is considered a secular belief established pre-Islam or a faith belief. Islam considers Arabs descendants of Abraham/Ishmael but not all Arabs believe in Islam or other faith based beliefs rooted in the bible or Koran. It is not Muslims, as I stated, who trace their lineage to Ishmael. It is Arab Muslims or Christian Arabs but not all Arabs.

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