# Historical successful figures with extremely or suspected low IQs **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 23, 2020, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410 "2020-04-23T06:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/1 "2020-04-23T06:29:26Z")
First off now jokes about current or former US presidents or other world leaders! Trying to be politically correct with this: As someone that was in Advanced Placement classes in High School, by the skin of my teeth. I always resented most of my classmates, who I thought were snobs who thought they were smarter than everyone else, and admired students in lower “placements” who graduated with mostly As and Bs, some of which ended up in much better colleges than me. But I have always been fascinated with those with supposedly lower IQs that have done well in life or a profession because my high school experience has taught me that IQ is just one measure of potential success. As a matter of fact, some studies have shown higher IQ may increase the possibility of mental illness. Let me get down to what I’m really asking and sorry for my language: are there examples of almost or certified “retarded” people that were very successful? Are there any historically important figures that may have been? I’m not including already intellectually disabled/downs syndrome actors that play the same. I’m a big believer that anyone can apply themselves and accomplish greatness regardless of supposed “IQ”. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/2 "2020-04-23T06:40:21Z")
NO jokes, not NOW jokes. Fuck me-----and in case anyone gets this wrong I’m looking for those with IQ odds stacked against them that did GREAT THINGS so we can PROVE an IQ test is not a predictor of life success! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/3 "2020-04-23T06:45:42Z")
Joan of Arc (for a time at least, until she became an inconvenience). ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/4 "2020-04-23T10:24:00Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Joan of Arc (for a time at least, until she became an inconvenience). She had visions, I never heard anywhere that she had subnormal intelligence. Cite? I think you’d probably be most successful in your quest if you started with European royalty. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/5 "2020-04-23T11:08:41Z")
Chuck Yeager was considered to be i) a hell of a test pilot and ii) dumb as rocks. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/6 "2020-04-23T12:15:09Z")
A lot of people have thought that the emperor Claudius was feeble-minded. That was certainly the image of him given in films like _Caligula_, although Robert Graves portrayed him as a canny survivor afflicted with a speech impediment in his novels (and in the PBS series based on them). His writings fall more in line with the latter. According to Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Claudius’ affliction and personality[edit] > > Claudius depicted as the Roman god Jupiter > The historian Suetonius describes the physical manifestations of Claudius’ affliction in relatively good detail.[54] His knees were weak and gave way under him and his head shook. He stammered and his speech was confused. He slobbered and his nose ran when he was excited. The Stoic Seneca states in his Apocolocyntosis that Claudius’ voice belonged to no land animal, and that his hands were weak as well.[55] > > However, he showed no physical deformity, as Suetonius notes that when calm and seated he was a tall, well-built figure of dignitas.[54] When angered or stressed, his symptoms became worse. Historians agree that this condition improved upon his accession to the throne.[56] Claudius himself claimed that he had exaggerated his ailments to save his life.[57] > > Modern assessments of his health have changed several times in the past century. Prior to World War II, infantile paralysis (or polio) was widely accepted as the cause. This is the diagnosis used in Robert Graves’ Claudius novels, first published in the 1930s. Polio does not explain many of the described symptoms, however, and a more recent theory implicates cerebral palsy as the cause, as outlined by Ernestine Leon.[58] Tourette syndrome has also been considered a possibility.[59][60] > > As a person, ancient historians described Claudius as generous and lowbrow, a man who sometimes lunched with the plebeians.[61][62] They also paint him as bloodthirsty and cruel, overly fond of gladiatorial combat and executions, and very quick to anger; Claudius himself acknowledged the latter trait, and apologized publicly for his temper.[63][64] According to the ancient historians he was also overly trusting, and easily manipulated by his wives and freedmen.[65][66] But at the same time they portray him as paranoid and apathetic, dull and easily confused.[67][68] > > Claudius’ extant works present a different view, painting a picture of an intelligent, scholarly, well-read, and conscientious administrator with an eye to detail and justice. Thus, Claudius becomes an enigma. Since the discovery of his “Letter to the Alexandrians” in the last century, much work has been done to rehabilitate Claudius and determine where the truth lies. > **[Claudius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudius)** > > Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus\[b\] (/ˈklɔːdiəs/; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Latin: \[tɪˈbɛriʊs ˈklau̯diʊs ˈkae̯sar au̯ˈɡʊstʊs gɛrˈmaːnɪkʊs\]; 1 August 10 BC – 13 October AD 54) was a Roman emperor, ruling from AD 41 to 54. A member of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, Claudius was born to Drusus and Antonia Minor at Lugdu... So Claudius probably wasn’t a Really Dumb ruler, but I thought he ought to be mentioned, because someone was sure to bring him up. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/7 "2020-04-23T12:41:23Z")
Given royalty, scions of powerful families, and the like, perhaps we ought to restrict ourselves to those who became great through their own efforts? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/8 "2020-04-23T12:52:51Z")
The OP is looking for people like Forrest Gump, or “Chauncey Gardner” from “Being There” (both the books by Winston Groom and Jerzy Kozinsky and the movies based on them)? Can’t think of any examples offhand. I keep thinking of Edward Foreman in Somerset Maugham’s short story _The Verger_, but he wasn’t mentally deficient, just illiterate. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/9 "2020-04-23T20:36:07Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > …Let me get down to what I’m really asking and sorry for my language: are there examples of almost or certified “retarded” people that were very successful? Are there any historically important figures that may have been?.. There are two questions here. There are a shed load of stupid sports persons and (recently) TV personalities who haven’t exactly been held back by their stupidity. Of the latter, in the UK [Jade Goody](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Goody) is a prime example: > [@](#): > > …Immediately criticised by the British press for her perceived lack of decorum and intelligence…When Goody appeared on Big Brother 3, she was ridiculed by the British tabloid press for her lack of general knowledge. She thought the English city of Cambridge was in London; when told that it was in East Anglia, she assumed East Anglia was outside Britain and referred to it as “East Angula”. Goody thought that Rio de Janeiro was a person, not a city; that Portugal was part of Spain; that St George’s Cross was the flag of London, not England; that Aberdeen was not in Scotland, and that the United States was not an English-speaking country… Sports persons? Take your pick. Should we assume that the OP is **specifically** after the “historically important figures”? j ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/10 "2020-04-23T20:46:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Given royalty, scions of powerful families, and the like, perhaps we ought to restrict ourselves to those who became great through their own efforts? Right, because you could say that Isabella II became Queen of Spain with the mental capacity of a 3 year old. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/11 "2020-04-23T21:24:08Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Chuck Yeager was considered to be i) a hell of a test pilot and ii) dumb as rocks. Really? Lacking formal education related to aviation, yes. In his day, it was more common for pilots to enter the field without college, especially during a war. This hindred his career later, as described in his autobiography. But I can’t remember assertions that he was dumb. Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![journeyman\_southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5e9695/32.png) [@journeyman\_southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/journeyman_southpaw)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/12 "2020-04-24T07:44:06Z")
[Kiyoshi Yamashita](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiyoshi_Yamashita) was a Japanese artist whose work earned a lot of recognition within his lifetime and whose IQ was measured at 68, so that’s the best example I can come up with. ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/13 "2020-04-24T10:37:57Z")
Ben Carson ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/14 "2020-04-24T12:06:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Chuck Yeager was considered to be i) a hell of a test pilot and ii) dumb as rocks. I had the pleasure of attending a talk he gave at the National Air and Space Museum in the early 80s. No way in hell is ii correct. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/15 "2020-04-24T14:35:38Z")
If there was a reliable correlation between saying dumb things and having low IQs, there’d be a hell of a lot of politicians on the list. \*‘‘My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize.’’ —Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) expressing concern during a congressional hearing that the presence of a large number of American soldiers might upend the island of Guam.\* > **[Dumbest Political Quotes of All Time](https://www.liveabout.com/dumbest-political-quotes-of-all-time-4083793)** > > A compendium of the dumbest things ever said by prominent Republicans, Democrats, pundits, and other politicians. And an all-time favorite from Pres. Gerald Ford, which rises to the level of profound philosophy: “Things are more like they are now than they have ever been.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/16 "2020-04-24T14:57:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And an all-time favorite from Pres. Gerald Ford, which rises to the level of profound philosophy: > > “Things are more like they are now than they have ever been.” Like many of the sayings of the bodhisattva Berra, that rises to the level of a zen koan. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/17 "2020-04-24T16:20:44Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > Sports persons? Take your pick. My first thought was Rickey Henderson, who is arguably the greatest leadoff hitter in Major League baseball history. There are also lots of stories about his lack of intellect. Some of my favorites: > [@](#): > > Rickey had blazing speed. He has crushed the single season stolen base mark, and he is the all-time steals leader, too. When he was first coming up, in the minor leagues, he was given carte blanche authority to steal whenever he thought it was right - other players, meanwhile, were only allowed to steal if the coach gave them the sign. > > One day, Rickey went to his coach and said that he wanted to get signs, too. The coach explained that Rickey was such a great base stealer that they didn’t want to restrict him, but he felt left out. > > So, the next time Rickey got to first base, the coach gave him a series of signs, including the steal sign, but then finished with the ‘take off’ sign, which is the signal that whatever sign was just given had been ‘taken off’ (this is done in case the other team is trying to match the signs, which are a series of body movements like tugging on one’s ear or swiping across the chest, to actions on the field). > > The next pitch, Rickey steals second. > > So, the coach gives him a series of signs again. This time, though, he never does the sign for stealing a base. And then, at the end, just to be sure, he does the ‘take off’ sign to make sure that Rickey knows he isn’t being told to run. > > The next pitch, Rickey steal third. > > Later, the coach confronts Rickey and asks why he should be giving signs if Rickey is just going to ignore them. Rickey’s reply: “I did follow your signs. You gave me the ‘take off’ sign, so I took off to second. Then you did it again, so I ‘took off’ to third.” > [@](#): > > Rickey is getting on the team bus with the Padres, one of several teams he played for towards the end of his career. He asked a player where he should sit, and the player responds, "Rickey, you have tenure. You can sit wherever you want. Rickey replies, “Ten years? Rickey’s been playing at least 16 years!” > [@](#): > > Early in his career, Rickey was a superstar with the Oakland A’s, and they rewarded him with a $1million signing bonus. Later, the front office was scrambling because their books wouldn’t balance. They came to find out that Rickey was so proud of his million dollar check that he framed it and put in on his wall…instead of depositing it. > [@](#): > > Rickey once missed three games in August due to frostbite. He apparently fell asleep with an icepack on his foot. > [@](#): > > Towards the end of his career, Rickey signed with the Mariners. The first baseman on the team, John Olerud, had a medical condition that caused him to wear a helmet, instead of a hat, when he was in the field. Once, Rickey went up to John and said, “you know, I once had a teammate in New York who also wore a helmet in the field.” Olerud’s response, “Yeah Rickey. That was me.” > (In fairness to Rickey, this is reportedly a joke made up by the trainer. Is it really so implausible, though?) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/18 "2020-04-24T16:29:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Like many of the sayings of the bodhisattva Berra, that rises to the level of a zen koan. “nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/19 "2020-04-24T17:23:58Z")
> [@MacCat](#): > > Ben Carson > [@](#): > > Carson was the Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at the Johns Hopkins Hospital from 1984 until his retirement in 2013. As a pioneer in neurosurgery, Carson’s achievements include performing the only successful separation of conjoined twins joined at the back of the head; performing the first successful neurosurgical procedure on a fetus inside the womb; performing the first completely successful separation of type-2 vertical craniopagus twins; developing new methods to treat brain-stem tumors; and revitalizing hemispherectomy techniques for controlling seizures.[4][5][6][7] He became the youngest chief of pediatric neurosurgery in the country at age 33.[6] Carson has received more than 60 honorary doctorate degrees, numerous national merit citations, and written over 100 neurosurgical publications.[8] In 2001, he was named by CNN and TIME magazine as one of the nation’s 20 foremost physicians and scientists, and was selected by the Library of Congress as one of 89 “Living Legends” on its 200th anniversary.[5] [Cite.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Carson) Come on, this isn’t brain surgery. Oh wait… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410/20 "2020-04-24T18:49:02Z")
I think lots of rock musicians would meet this designation. There’s a joke about an AI machine which converses with a person based on their IQ. Enter “140”, and it will ask you about quantum electrodynamics. Enter “100”, it will ask who you think will win the Super Bowl. Enter “65”, and it will ask you “So what kind of strings do you use?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-successful-figures-with-extremely-or-suspected-low-iqs/852410.md?page=2)