Maybe you could explain what Neo Natal death rates have to do with the OP?
The point stands. If the poster has some evidence that the rates are under reported than please he should share.
Maybe you could explain what Neo Natal death rates have to do with the OP?
The point stands. If the poster has some evidence that the rates are under reported than please he should share.
A car veers off the road and into a lake.
Accident or suicide?
Especially when the ‘accident’ is not known - the person just disappeared until somebody stumbles across the rotting remains of the car.
Single-occupant car hits tree. This one can be easy - are there skid marks showing braking?
Yes, they do look for them - esp. insurance agents.
Suicide by airplane is always a possibility - and will go unreported unless you take 150 other people with you.
If there is no note (why do suicides always well obliged to leave a note?), the report is likely to be ‘accident’.
So, yea, I’m going to guess ‘under-reported’.
So i guess as the stigma of depression is reduced in society, the rate of reported suicide increases. Or is it the other way around?
I also attribute some suicide, like crazy murder-suicides, serial killers, etc - as a social disease of the affluent. In poor settings today, and in past society generally, few people had the opportunity to live in isolation; much as someone living 6 to a small apartment don’t have the opportunity to sulk alone in the rec room playing video games the way suburban kids can. They are forced to socialize and interact, which probably goes a long way to mitigating some mental issues and antisocial tendencies.
But yes, I suspect depression and Schizophrenia and many other afflictions leading to suicide are as common back then as today. But as mentioned, suicide was a mortal sin (i.e. suicides could not be buried in hallowed ground?) so it was probably hushed up where possible. Without firearms or rat poisons or other typical modern products, the opportunities were probably fewer; and without forensics, poison was hard to prove.
The more prominent suicides probably relate to how vicious society could be. In societies where crucifixion, burning at the stake, and similar creative slow execution methods were common, the royally screwed probably found it advantageous to bypass that option.
Well didn’t Elliott Smith stab himself twice in the heart?
In ancient history, suicide is so ridiculously common that you stop even taking notice after a while. People are falling on their swords left and right. But it’s always suicide as the honorable or sensible way out after defeat in battle, or to avoid a worse fate. It is often considered admirable. Cato killed himself rather than giving Caesar a chance to pardon him (which was something Caesar loved doing, and, yes, it can backfire when everyone you pardon - spoiler alert - stab you at the Ides of March). That has made Cato a hero to a whole lot of people, ever since.
But depression-related suicides isn’t really ever mentioned. The only example I can think of right now that might qualify, sort of, is the Roman Emperor Valentinian II. He was just a powerless figurehead, which apparently bummed him out massively, so he hung himself. Although it is possible that he was actually murdered.
How long has depression even been recognized, as, well, a thing?
Googles
The ancients did recognize melancholia as a thing. It seems to cover depression as well as other mental problems. Not sure if it was recognized as something that might lead to suicides, though. Although, when you think about it, it must be something that has always happened. So, good question.
Judas’ suicide was clearly done in a state of despair.
True. Good one.
Yeah, that’s a pretty persnickety distinction. Personally, I’m cool with classifying that as “suicide by servant”. There’s quite a bit of that going around.
Mithridates did a similar thing. Actually (for anyone unfamiliar with the story), his is a particularly delicious case. After spending his whole life making himself immune to poisons by taking antidotes as well as poisons in small, non-lethal amounts, Mithridates tried to kill himself using poison. Epic suicide fail. So he had a friend stab him instead.
Nero might have been “Suicide by servant” but not “suicide by depression”.
I wonder how many death row inmates would choose a cyanide pill over capital punishment.
What does the link I provided have to do with neo natal death rates?
In my college library, I once ran across a forensic pathology textbook. One of the weirder photos in the book was of a man who had shot himself in the head. Three times. The bullets put holes in his nose, sinuses, and jaw, but none of the wounds were fatal. He gave up on the gun and hung himself.
Reminds me of National Lampoon’s commentary on the Chilean coup and Salvador Allende’s suicide:
“Caramba! Our beloved president has committed suicide by shooting himself … in the back, from thirty paces, pausing only once to reload!”
The earliest and most prominent that springs to mind is Cleopatra, with the famous asp. Hers fits into the “following a military defeat” category mentioned earlier.
[QUOTE=Martian Bigfoot]
Mithridates did a similar thing. Actually (for anyone unfamiliar with the story), his is a particularly delicious case. After spending his whole life making himself immune to poisons by taking antidotes as well as poisons in small, non-lethal amounts, Mithridates tried to kill himself using poison. Epic suicide fail. So he had a friend stab him instead.
[/QUOTE]
The book I’m reading right now posits that the problem wasn’t that he was imune to his own suicide drugs - it’s that he was caught unprepared in a sudden losing siege, and had with him his two youngest daughters.
So gave each little girl an lethal dose of the only poisen he had that was painless - and the one he himself was not imune to. And then had not enough for himself.
Guessing: *The Poison King? *That’s a very good book! Yeah, I suppose that’s a plausible alternative take on it. And rather sweet.
Wait. Did I just describe a story where a guy gives poison to his two young daughters as “sweet”? I didn’t realize how messed up that actually is until right now.
Certainly prominent, but not that early. Cleo is 1st century BC. And the ancients were knocking themselves off since forever.
I guess Ajax, from the Trojan war, sort of set the tone, way back in mythical times. He lost a competition with Odysseus for the armor of Achilles after the latter’s demise, and (at least in one version) killed himself in shame. I mean… really, Ajax? That’s a pretty low threshold you have there for falling on your sword. Was that entirely necessary? You don’t think you’ll feel better about this in the morning?
Not just suicide but seppuku which is like the bitter, angry brother of suicide.
I can’t imagine the stress of trying to put a bullet in your head. My aim would wander as well to avoid the tragic end.
Didn’t Hitler both take cyanide and shoot himself? The obvious question is “Which killed him first?” Obviously the bullet killed him before the poison did.
[QUOTE=Martian Bigfoot]
Guessing: The Poison King? That’s a very good book! Yeah, I suppose that’s a plausible alternative take on it. And rather sweet.
Wait. Did I just describe a story where a guy gives poison to his two young daughters as “sweet”? I didn’t realize how messed up that actually is until right now.
[/QUOTE]
Busted It is a great book. Forces you to root for what is arguably a psychopathic dictator (but what a magnificent one).
Well, he is up against what is arguably the Evil Empire (but a magnificent one).
Ain’t the ancient world great?
Mostly, I thought it was refreshing to see a take on the period that is less Roman-centric than usual.