# Historical use of the term "desperado"

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [December 24, 2021, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605 "2021-12-24T22:05:09Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605/21 "2021-12-26T06:58:34Z")

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> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#):
>
> Like calling syphilis the ‘French disease’, referring to the ‘Spanish pox’, Welshing on a deal, etc. (I presume other languages do similar things.)

Off-topic, but in France to “take French leave” is “filer à l’anglaise”.

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**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605/22 "2021-12-26T09:42:48Z")

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> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> While Etymonline is usually a reliable site, I can’t find any independent source that substantiates the 1560 date. All the other dictionaries label this usage as from the 17th century and my compact OED puts it as 1647. I could be missing a proper cite and would like to see it if so, but I haven’t read an actual sentence using the word in the sense we’re talking about earlier than 1647.

I believe the Entymonline cite from the 1560s for the noun _desparate_ is the obsolete sense of person without hope, which matches the OED’s earliest cite of 1563 for that sense. The OED’s earliest cite for _desperado_ with that definition is 1610. The 1647 date is the earliest cite for _desperado_ in the sense of outlaw.

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**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605/23 "2021-12-26T16:59:00Z")

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There’s also the obsolete word “grenado” (which appear to be cod Spanish for “grenade”).

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**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605/24 "2021-12-26T21:54:33Z")

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I don’t know what “cod Spanish” means, but the word for “grenade” is _granada_: for the city (there are [many](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granada_(desambiguaci%C3%B3n)), btw), for the country (both capitalized, of course), for the [fruit](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punica_granatum) and for the [hand thrown bomb](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granada_de_mano). The word “grenado” is in no Spanish dictionary of mine.

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**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605/25 "2021-12-26T22:18:19Z")

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[The Word Detective](http://www.word-detective.com/2008/04/cod-mock/)

> “Cod,” as you have gathered, means “ **fake, phony, mock** ,” and thereby hangs our tale. “Cod” meaning “phony” has been British slang since the early 20th century,

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**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\
**Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historical-use-of-the-term-desperado/956605/26 "2021-12-26T22:19:59Z")

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Thank you, good link.

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