# Historically accurate battle tactics in movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [May 19, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412 "2021-05-19T02:25:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/1 "2021-05-19T02:25:34Z")
Specifically I’m talking about pre-gun battle tactics. What movies show historically accurate battle tactics? I don’t care if the plot is accurate just the tactics. Hell it would be great if they showed any tactics even if it’s not accurate. It could be a movie set in a fantasy world as long as they are using recognizable weapons. It seems to me that with most movies with medieval or equivalent weapons both sides line up across from each other and after the hero says a few words the two sides run at each other and crash in the middle. Which movies at least attempt to show something more tactical? ---
**Author:** ![HughGoply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hughgoply/32/7834_2.png) [@HughGoply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HughGoply)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/2 "2021-05-19T02:33:02Z")
The TV show Rome was praised for somewhat realistic battle tactics. Although the budget limited them to more discussion than actual depiction. ---
**Author:** ![HughGoply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hughgoply/32/7834_2.png) [@HughGoply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HughGoply)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/3 "2021-05-19T02:36:44Z")
Also, pre-gun might be earlier than you think. China had “guns” by the 1000s AD, and Europe was using them during the 1300s. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/4 "2021-05-19T17:40:59Z")
I am quite aware of when guns and gunpowder were invented. They did not become the principle weapon for quite some time. If there are movies or shows that portray early gunpowder use in at least a semi-accurate way in battle by all means by all means mention it. A tv series that makes a decent attempt at times to show tactics is The Last Kingdom. I have not seen the recent seasons but they at least attempted at times to show more than “run at that guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/5 "2021-05-19T22:45:23Z")
The hoplite phalanx in Alexander was supposedly well researched and depicted accurately (including it eventually getting broken) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/6 "2021-05-19T22:50:53Z")
The Game of Thrones episode “Battle of the Bastards” had mismatched battle tactics (incompetent by Jon Snow and well done by Ramsay Bolton) - Ramsay should have easily won a battle with such a poorly led opponent (and a numbers advantage), but Snow got lucky when allied cavalry showed up at exactly the right moment to flank the Bolton forces. Ramsay used his advantage in numbers well, successfully surrounding the opposing infantry. Very well performed and executed episode, though I had some issues with the writing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/7 "2021-05-20T00:15:57Z")
I hate to say anything good about Mel Gibson, but _The Patriot_ was pretty damn accurate in its costuming and its battle tactics, both squad-level and division-level, plus really accurate hand-to-hand. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/8 "2021-05-20T14:24:30Z")
The Roman maniple formation in _Spartacus_ must have had Stanley Kubrick thinking he’d have made a decent Roman general. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/9 "2021-05-20T14:51:08Z")
I recall use of the _testudo_ in _The Eagle_. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/10 "2021-05-21T00:48:07Z")
The English troops in _Barry Lyndon_ did a good job marching into the French volleys. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/11 "2021-05-21T01:07:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The Game of Thrones episode “Battle of the Bastards” had mismatched battle tactics (incompetent by Jon Snow and well done by Ramsay Bolton) - Ramsay should have easily won a battle with such a poorly led opponent (and a numbers advantage), but Snow got lucky when allied cavalry showed up at exactly the right moment to flank the Bolton forces. Ramsay used his advantage in numbers well, successfully surrounding the opposing infantry. > > Very well performed and executed episode, though I had some issues with the writing. Right, that was believable in whole, but what was a little unbelievable was how Jon’s army was so quickly and effortlessly surrounded - in reality it seems that it would take a lot longer for heavy infantry to perform such a maneuvre. It seemed that the surrounding infantry just ran quickly, unopposed, to form a ring around the combatants. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/12 "2021-05-21T07:02:35Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > The English troops in _Barry Lyndon_ did a good job marching into the French volleys. That’s a great example of what’s NOT historically accurate. - The French stand and kneel motionless, firing volley after volley at short intervals without ever reloading their muskets. Muskets couldn’t be reloaded in a kneeling position, and two volleys per minute was a good rate of fire. - There’s no system of rolling volleys by company, or moving the line forward while the rear rank reloads. All of them seem to be firing at once. - They are apparently using almost smokeless gunpowder. In reality they would soon have been enveloped in clouds of smoke. - The effect of their fire at long range is excessive. Muskets had a maximum effective range of 100 yards, and even then there was not that much effect. - The English colonel must obviously have been insane, because nothing else would explain why he would simply advance his regiment into heavy fire in an open field without stopping and returning fire. It was standard practice at the time that regiments would slowly advance towards each other, with both sides firing, until one side gave way. It would be difficult to find an example of 18th century warfare that’s less accurate. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/13 "2021-05-21T07:10:29Z")
Not too hard to show realistic battle tactics when the battle is only spoken off not shown. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/14 "2021-05-21T07:11:38Z")
Yes, but that formation was not used in circumstances like that. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/15 "2021-05-21T07:13:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I recall use of the _testudo_ in _The Eagle_ . See this video of Israelis using a kind of testudo in 2014, while being bombarded with rocks, etc. It shows that it could have been very effective, especially in siege operations. But it was not usually used in open combat because it limited movement too much. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/R6llh_fe2kY/maxresdefault.jpg "Israeli Police Forces vs. Temple Mount Rioters") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6llh_fe2kY) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/16 "2021-05-21T07:14:27Z")
The typical Roman enemy had a lot more than “rocks” to fight back with. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/17 "2021-05-21T07:17:27Z")
The testudo was effective against arrows and javelins as well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/18 "2021-05-21T07:21:16Z")
From what I’ve read, it was used in multiple different circumstances. > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > But it was not usually used in open combat because it limited movement too much. I wouldn’t clasa the scene in _The Eagle_ as “open combat”, more just a small sortie. One that falls apart when the chariots are brought in. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/19 "2021-05-21T07:34:32Z")
hmmmm [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3PKNvIocm9w/hqdefault.jpg "The Eagle - Best scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PKNvIocm9w) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412/20 "2021-05-21T07:37:21Z")
Arrows will happily pierce most shields and remain lethal. So will a Javelin, If you are taking arrows and Jevelin in a _testudo_ formation, things have already gone badly wrong. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historically-accurate-battle-tactics-in-movies/942412.md?page=2)