# History / Gunpowder **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 8, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-gunpowder/167403 "2003-04-08T21:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-gunpowder/167403/1 "2003-04-08T21:38:49Z")
Okay, I know I hear all the time that the Chinese were the first to invent gunpowder. However, I was of the opinion that there was parallel development in Europe (ie- The Europeans had gunpowder by the time they started trade with China). Can anyone give me historical info as to where / when gunpowder was developed in Europe? Cites would be useful, but not wholy necessary (I trust you guys!) ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-gunpowder/167403/2 "2003-04-08T21:46:27Z")
I have no cites at the moment (I haven’t done an internet search, and I can’t remember the name of the book I read this in) but deetermining the origin of gunpowder (and many other ancient discoveries) is nearly impossible. There were numerous contacts between the peoples of Europe and Asia through many different routes. Discoveries flowed back and forth, primarily along trade routes, and often would undergo both parallel developement and incremental advancement among many different peoples (Chinese, Western Europeans, Arabs, etc.). I know this isn’t exactly what you’re looking for, but that was the most convincing argument I’ve ever heard about the development of gunpowder. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-gunpowder/167403/3 "2003-04-08T22:14:10Z")
I’ve seen various discussions; the best, I think, is that the Arabs (“Saracens”) learned of gunpowder when they took over the Silk Road in the 10th century; Europeans then learned of it (“Saracen Powder”) when the Arabs used it against them in the 11th century. It was in the 13th century that Roger Bacon recorded the formula and properties of gunpowder, so it seems pretty certain that, while Europeans had gunpowder before opening direct trade with China (15th cent.?), they had learned of it rather than discovering it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-gunpowder/167403/4 "2003-04-08T23:37:12Z")
**ArrrMatey** –love that nickname! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![nth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/58956e/32.png) [@nth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-gunpowder/167403/5 "2003-04-09T00:59:44Z")
wait a minute, for some crazy reason i got it in my head that gunpowder was spread to west civ by traders as part of magic show. not magic, but an amusement thing where you can throw this at a fire and watch it explode among other things they used it for? the military use was later on when arabs use it against europe. but that is totally from recall and it is fuzzy. ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-gunpowder/167403/6 "2003-04-09T16:04:05Z")
Well, with “Invention” and “Iron Working,” “Gunpowder” is the [next logical step](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1644175#post1644175)! 😉