# History - When did Wars Fought in the Name of Christianity End? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580 "2015-05-22T12:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/41 "2015-05-23T06:28:34Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I think religion was (at the very least) a pretext for considerably longer than that. The Spanish Civil War wasn’t a religious war, per se, but religion (specifically, the ‘defence of Christian civilization against atheist communism’) was an important motivation for many of the participants on Franco’s side, and for many of their foreign supporters. And Franco himself appealed heavily to religious imagery and sentiments, and to fears of the atheist communists (I think one of his official titles was ‘Leader of Spain and the Crusade’). For that matter, so did the ultra-religious Croatian Fascists (who were truly one of the more horrific regimes of the last century). If many Spanish Christians feared atheist communists, they had good reason to do so. The ‘Reds’ murdered thousands of clergy during the Civil War and destroyed many priceless religious artifacts. They made no secret of their desire to violently wipe out religion, nor did Marxists in any other country. So it’s hardly surprising that many Catholics supported Franco, or that he would use Spain’s strong Catholic identity as a rallying point. (Neither I, nor anyone else, would defend what Franco did generally, but we have a comfortable perspective from 80 years after the fact. We don’t have to choose between Franco and someone who wants us dead.) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/42 "2015-05-23T13:17:28Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Part of the rationale behind the Cold War was fear and hatred of godless Communism. I grew up in that era, and one of the things that was supposedly so bad about Communist governments was that they didn’t allow people to practice religion. The Catholic Church in Poland played a role in the revolution against the Communist government. No “supposedly” about it. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/43 "2015-05-24T09:24:30Z")
Many wars in the past including the crusades were sold as a religious war but often there deeper reasons were the same reasons for most wars. The need for resources (especially food) brought about by overstressed populations or climate change, the desire to subjugate others, the desire for persons to free themselves from outside rulers, or forced into a war by treaty. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/44 "2015-05-24T14:44:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Pretty much _every war_ has had an economic reason for starting. But since 1648 or so they pretty much stopped advertising the religious trappings as a motivation. Not true. The American Civil War saw its Union belligerent resorting to religious rhetoric to an incredible degree. The religious trappings were foremost in motivating the wide-eyed pietist zealots of the North. Wilsonianism sees its roots in the same Protestant desire to build God’s Kingdom on Earth. It’s modern proponents see it as their “duty” to bring democracy to the brown people of the world. The Protestant inclination to bring heathens to God by using the mechanism of state is so deeply embedded in the people of the United States that it has survived cultural shifts away from religion, and now bears a secular cloak. So now the War Party has a “secular” wing and a religious wing represented by Hillary Clinton and George W Bush. Obama doesn’t seem to buy into it but he has outright fanatics like Samantha Power giving him advice. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/45 "2015-05-24T15:36:28Z")
Were are in one now, only we don’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/46 "2015-05-24T15:56:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think it’s nationalism first, with sect as easy identifier. The IRA had never touted itself as an exclusively Catholic (as in - the religion) organization - nationalism was always its primary feature. And Nationalist/Republic movements have always had at least some Protestant representation and leadership: > **[Protestant Irish nationalists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Irish_nationalists#1940.E2.80.93present)** > > Protestant Irish Nationalists are adherents of Protestantism in Ireland who also support Irish nationalism. Protestants have played a large role in the development of Irish nationalism since the eighteenth century, despite most Irish nationalists historically being from the Irish Catholic majority, as well as most Irish Protestants usually tending toward unionism in Ireland. Protestant nationalists (or patriots, particularly before the mid-19th century)\[citation needed\] have consistently b... And there was at least one leader of the Provisional IRA that was born in England, though my memory and google-fu is failing me. I don’t believe he was Protestant though. As you suggest its difficult to make pat and neat explanations for the conflict in this area of the world, but its certainly never been quite as simple as ‘Protestant VS Catholic’. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/47 "2015-05-24T16:29:58Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > And there was at least one leader of the Provisional IRA that was born in England, though my memory and google-fu is failing me. I don’t believe he was Protestant though. John Stephenson/Sean Mac Stiofain, the first Chief of Staff of the Provos after the split from the Official IRA. His father was English, his mother was Irish Protestant. He was Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/48 "2015-05-24T17:06:37Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > As you suggest its difficult to make pat and neat explanations for the conflict in this area of the world, but its certainly never been quite as simple as ‘Protestant VS Catholic’. It would be pretty neat if people would not only grok this, but then extend this understanding of the Irish conflict to every other war there is, ever was or will be. Imagine aaaaall the people, sharing all the pettiness, woo-oo oohoohooo… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/49 "2015-05-24T18:28:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Snark aside - 1648. The Peace of Westphalia pretty much put an end to the religious wars in Europe, at least on any large scale. The Thirty Years War was the last major war where religion was the pretext. > > - The English/British overthrew a King in 1688/1689 and invited a foreigner in, because said foreigner was Protestant, not Catholic like the King. They then went and fobade a Catholic from ever being King, or marrying a King which is still in force today. Across the Channel the repeal of the Edict of Nantes in 1685 led to about 100 years of war between France and its surrounding Protestant neighbours. In the 1770’s, the establishment of Catholicism in Quebec by the British was one of the Intolerable Acts for the Americans Patriots (a fact which current Americans are rather shy to admit). So 1648 never ended any wars of religion in Europe. It was in the 19th century that they were replaced by nationalism, which incidentally also had a religious component. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/50 "2015-05-24T18:57:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The American Civil War saw its Union belligerent resorting to religious rhetoric to an incredible degree. The religious trappings were foremost in motivating the wide-eyed pietist zealots of the North. > > . “_Union_ belligerent”? “wide-eyed pietist \*zealots \*of the _North_”? Perhaps you’re talking about the Civil War from some Harry Turtletaub alt/his book, since the South was the belligerent, and had the zealots. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/51 "2015-05-24T19:19:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The IRA _wasn’t/isn’t_ primarily a Catholic group committing terrorism against Protestants? Yes, there was a lot of Irish nationalism involved, but it was on the basis of religious identification, right? > > Learn something new every day, I guess. They’re a group of Irish Nationalists who revere a guy named Charles Stewart Parnell, probably the leading figure in the Home Rule movement who was a Protestant. Yes, just as Al Fatah and the Ba’athists of Iraq and Syria are overwhelmingly Muslim the IRA is overwhelmingly Catholic but classify any of those groups as “Muslim” or “Catholic” is ludicrous. Also, “Protestants” were hardly their only targets. Anyone who identified as a Unionist or was seen as opposing the Nationalist cause was open game. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/52 "2015-05-24T19:29:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > John Stephenson/Sean Mac Stiofain, the first Chief of Staff of the Provos after the split from the Official IRA. His father was English, his mother was Irish Protestant. He was Catholic. Ah, yes, the very man, thanks. > [@Kobal2](#): > > It would be pretty neat if people would not only grok this, but then extend this understanding of the Irish conflict to every other war there is, ever was or will be. > > Imagine aaaaall the people, sharing all the pettiness, woo-oo oohoohooo… 😛 But how can we have complex problems broken down into short sound-bites for television?!? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/53 "2015-05-25T00:50:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “_Union_ belligerent”? > “wide-eyed pietist \*zealots \*of the _North_”? > > Perhaps you’re talking about the Civil War from some Harry Turtletaub alt/his book, since the South was the belligerent, and had the zealots. Perhaps you are talking about vocabulary with some public school experience, since the term “belligerent” is used to describe a nation or entity at war, not necessarily the aggressor. Perhaps you are talking about the Civil War from a comic-book version of history in which the pietists of the North were not outright shivering loons who worshiped John Brown as a Christ-like figure. Read Lincoln’s speeches. He was a master of religious rhetoric. He knew which string to pluck for those nutjobs. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/54 "2015-05-25T08:45:34Z")
Isn’t there one going on now in the Central African Republic? I mean, it’s Christians and Muslims killing each other, but that’s what you mean, right? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/55 "2015-05-25T09:12:47Z")
Wait, followers of John Brown were “shivering loons”? No, “outright shivering loons,” even? I think I’m insulted. On the other hand, our side won, and the slavers were dispossessed. Nyah! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580/56 "2015-05-27T02:46:07Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > But how can we have complex problems broken down into short sound-bites for television?!? That’s an easy fix. Keep the problems complex and accept the issue of “very long detailed analyses required”, but add lesbian orgies in the background. Hey, it worked on _Game of Thrones_. (heh, I realize that, actually, it _did_ work on GoT. I strongly suspect more people grok the intricacies of the byzantine fantasy politics of Westeros, to a very fine granularity ; than have a correct picture of what ISIS even is, where they are, what they do etc…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/history-when-did-wars-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity-end/720580.md?page=2)