# History's greatest acts of bravery and cowardice

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [June 29, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311 "2009-06-29T03:14:17Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/41 "2009-06-29T18:43:01Z")

</div>

> [@msmith537](#):
>
> How about the My Lai massacre for cowardice?
> 
> On the other hand, the helicopter team led by Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson, Jr. that tried to intervene were pretty brave.

I was about to post about the difference between moral and physical bravery, and this post pretty much sums it up.

The people who took part in the former, I’m sure demonstrated plenty of physical courage prior to the massacre (several of them had received decorations for bravery, I believe). The latter showed is something far rarer in wartime, that is moral courage.

The point has often been made in connection with the Wehrmacht in WW2, they showed an abundance of physical courage, often facing overwhelming odds, but there a very few examples of Wehrmacht troops showing the moral courage to object to Nazi war crimes. Even earlier in the war when objecting troops would in all likelihood be putting only their careers at risk, not their lives.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/42 "2009-06-29T18:48:18Z")

</div>

> [@Blake](#):
>
> In all this the survivors were ignored and largely forgotten, leaving an impression in the public mind that that there were no survivors, and that perception is still with us 150 years later.

Hence Kipling’s later attack in “The Last of the Light Brigade”, which has the last survivors, now old men, confront Tennyson about his poem, and the fact that they are now living forgotten in poverty.

> [@](#):
>
> The old Troop-Sergeant was spokesman, and “Beggin’ your pardon,” he said,  
> "You wrote o’ the Light Brigade, sir. Here’s all that isn’t dead.  
> An’ it’s all come true what you wrote, sir, regardin’ the mouth of hell;  
> For we’re all of us nigh to the workhouse, an’ we thought we’d call an’ tell.
> 
> “No, thank you, we don’t want food, sir; but couldn’t you take an’ write  
> A sort of ‘to be continued’ and ‘see next page’ o’ the fight?  
> We think that someone has blundered, an’ couldn’t you tell 'em how?  
> You wrote we were heroes once, sir. Please, write we are starving now.”
> 
> The poor little army departed, limping and lean and forlorn.  
> And the heart of the Master-singer grew hot with “the scorn of scorn.”  
> And he wrote for them wonderful verses that swept the land like flame,  
> Till the fatted souls of the English were scourged with the thing called Shame.
> 
> O thirty million English that babble of England’s might,  
> Behold there are twenty heroes who lack their food to-night;  
> Our children’s children are lisping to "honour the charge they made - "  
> And we leave to the streets and the workhouse the charge of the Light Brigade!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/43 "2009-06-29T18:49:40Z")

</div>

Sophie and Hans Scholl, [active members of the White Rose non-violent resistance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose) to the Nazis.

> [@](#):
>
> On 18 February 1943, coincidentally the same day that Nazi propaganda minister Josef Goebbels called on the German people to embrace total war in his Sportpalast speech, the Scholls brought a suitcase full of leaflets to the university. They hurriedly dropped stacks of copies in the empty corridors for students to find when they flooded out of lecture rooms. Leaving before the class break, the Scholls noticed that some copies remained in the suitcase and decided it would be a pity not to distribute them. They returned to the atrium and climbed the staircase to the top floor, and Sophie flung the last remaining leaflets into the air. This spontaneous action was observed by the custodian Jakob Schmid. The police were called and Hans and Sophie Scholl were taken into Gestapo custody. The other active members were soon arrested, and the group and everyone associated with them were brought in for interrogation.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/44 "2009-06-29T18:55:53Z")

</div>

> [@smiling\_bandit](#):
>
> Actually, this was probably nothing near courage. More like insanity. Roman custom - but a very solid custom which was almost always adhered to - was that they could have surrendered at any time until they began beaking down the gates (with a ram) or otherwise breached the walls. In such a case, property might be forfeit but lives were spared and the survivors of the seige were usually not enslaved.
> 
> Second, the Sicarii fortified atop Masada were little better than murderers and thieves, which may have been one of the reasons the Romans went after them.

I rather suspect that if they had survived they would have had a future that consisted of entertaining the mob in the Arena.

Any cite for Roman non-enslavement of rebels who surrender? Strikes me that Arena “games” or crucifictions all around was more their style, and enslavement was a “best” outcome. Particularly after forcing the Romans to build a honking big ramp up the side of a plateau (the ramp’s still there - I walked on it).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/45 "2009-06-29T19:08:17Z")

</div>

> [@BlinkingDuck](#):
>
> Schindler.

Even more than Schindler, I would list the Polish Righteous Among the Nations.

Had Schindler been caught, bad things would have happened to him, but my guess is he would have lived. When Poles were caught helping Jews, they and their whole family were liable for execution.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/46 "2009-06-29T19:19:00Z")

</div>

> [@smiling\_bandit](#):
>
> Actually, this was probably nothing near courage. More like insanity. Roman custom - but a very solid custom which was almost always adhered to - was that they could have surrendered at any time until they began beaking down the gates (with a ram) or otherwise breached the walls. In such a case, property might be forfeit but lives were spared and the survivors of the seige were usually not enslaved.
> 
> Second, the Sicarii fortified atop Masada were little better than murderers and thieves, which may have been one of the reasons the Romans went after them.

While this is not typically my style (that post was only the second time I have ever posted anything to Great Debates) but I would be interested in a site that states that the Romans did not usually enslave prisoners on a routine basis.

That just seems to run counter to everything I have read/been taught about the Roman M.O. but I have certainly been misinformed before, so anything new I can learn is always welcome…  
Thanks, Matthew

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/47 "2009-06-29T19:27:13Z")

</div>

> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> While this is not typically my style (that post was only the second time I have ever posted anything to Great Debates) but I would be interested in a site that states that the Romans did not usually enslave prisoners on a routine basis.
> 
> That just seems to run counter to everything I have read/been taught about the Roman M.O. but I have certainly been misinformed before, so anything new I can learn is always welcome…  
> Thanks, Matthew

[http://books.google.com/books?id=FBTesdgIbcsC&pg=PA336&lpg=PA336&dq=roman+siege+custom+massacre&source=bl&ots=YT5OfaBqp6&sig=EuHAvFg1xzB8e7ILP5U3p9sL1a0&hl=en&ei=whRJSoznDIW0tgfl6tCSBg&sa=X&oi=book\_result&ct=result&resnum=2](http://books.google.com/books?id=FBTesdgIbcsC&pg=PA336&lpg=PA336&dq=roman+siege+custom+massacre&source=bl&ots=YT5OfaBqp6&sig=EuHAvFg1xzB8e7ILP5U3p9sL1a0&hl=en&ei=whRJSoznDIW0tgfl6tCSBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2)

That is a mess but should do. They tended to ransom people before trying to sell them as slaves. Massacres occurred if they fought their way into the city. And they certainly didn’t transport slaves across the sea to the arenas unless they wanted exotic gladiators. Commonplace arena bait were criminals and local slaves.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/48 "2009-06-29T19:36:26Z")

</div>

> [@villa](#):
>
> Even more than Schindler, I would list the Polish Righteous Among the Nations.
> 
> Had Schindler been caught, bad things would have happened to him, but my guess is he would have lived. When Poles were caught helping Jews, they and their whole family were liable for execution.

Along these same lines, the [entire country of Denmark in 1943](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews). Any individual might, sure, not have been as heroic as Schindler or the Poles above, but the whole _country_ rallied to smuggle all of their Jews out: lots of little acts of bravery and heroism by people who weren’t and didn’t think of themselves as heroes. which to me adds up to a whole that is simply phenomenal.

I learned of this through Fred Small’s song “Denmark 1943” (what else? 🙂 ), which still makes me bawl whenever I listen to it.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/49 "2009-06-29T19:37:38Z")

</div>

> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#):
>
> While this is not typically my style (that post was only the second time I have ever posted anything to Great Debates) but I would be interested in a site that states that the Romans did not usually enslave prisoners on a routine basis.

Not just Romans, that was pretty much a universal code in ancient time (and much later, even up to the Napoleonic times). If you surrendered your city quickly without a fuss you usually left alone with a bit of tribute exacted, and maybe a new ruler. If you held out and forced the enemy to into a siege(which usually as painful for the besiegers as the besieged), then when they finally break through the shit will definitely hit the fan, and you’ll be lucky if you survive long enough to be enslaved.

There we exceptions to this, but it’s pretty much the way things worked back then.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/50 "2009-06-29T19:45:07Z")

</div>

> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> Not just Romans, that was pretty much a universal code in ancient time (and much later, even up to the Napoleonic times). If you surrendered your city quickly without a fuss you usually left alone with a bit of tribute exacted, and maybe a new ruler. If you held out and forced the enemy to into a siege(which usually as painful for the besiegers as the besieged), then when they finally break through the shit will definitely hit the fan, and you’ll be lucky if you survive long enough to be enslaved.
> 
> There we exceptions to this, but it’s pretty much the way things worked back then.

Makes sense, and jibes with what I had been taught; that said, the Jews at Masada would be looking at some very pissed off Romans when they (Romans) would have finally breached the walls, and I would be shocked if they could have just given the Romans some beads and trinkets and sent them off on thier way…

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/51 "2009-06-29T19:46:09Z")

</div>

Though I would add that notwithstanding my last post, there was ALOT of enslaving done by Roman armies. So much so that the volume of slaves being brought back to Rome radically changed the Roman economy (replacing small land-owning farmers, with huge slave-run aristocratic estates), and which in turn led directly to the fall of the Republic. Here I’ll put in my weekly plug for the awesome [History of Rome](http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/) podcast, which explains this in detail.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/52 "2009-06-29T19:54:02Z")

</div>

> [@smiling\_bandit](#):
>
> [http://books.google.com/books?id=FBTesdgIbcsC&pg=PA336&lpg=PA336&dq=roman+siege+custom+massacre&source=bl&ots=YT5OfaBqp6&sig=EuHAvFg1xzB8e7ILP5U3p9sL1a0&hl=en&ei=whRJSoznDIW0tgfl6tCSBg&sa=X&oi=book\_result&ct=result&resnum=2](http://books.google.com/books?id=FBTesdgIbcsC&pg=PA336&lpg=PA336&dq=roman+siege+custom+massacre&source=bl&ots=YT5OfaBqp6&sig=EuHAvFg1xzB8e7ILP5U3p9sL1a0&hl=en&ei=whRJSoznDIW0tgfl6tCSBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2)
> 
> That is a mess but should do. They tended to ransom people before trying to sell them as slaves. Massacres occurred if they fought their way into the city. And they certainly didn’t transport slaves across the sea to the arenas unless they wanted exotic gladiators. Commonplace arena bait were criminals and local slaves.

That’s not what I read.

> [@](#):
>
> Seven hundred survivors were shipped to Rome to be paraded in a victory celebration, others were sold into slavery. A few hundred Zealots managed to escape to carry on the struggle from Herod the Great’s former strongholds at Machaerus (in Perea, modern Jordan), Herodion (near Bethlehem) and Masada (by the Dead Sea).
> 
> According to Josephus, the Romans left only the three great towers of Herod’s palace on the western side of the city standing “in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well-fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued.” The Tenth Roman Legion was stationed in Jerusalem area with standing orders to execute any Jew who claimed to be a descendant of King David.
> 
> Back in Rome the following year Titus, together with his father Vespasian, celebrated the victory with a procession of seven hundred Jewish prisoners and spoils of war, including items captured from the Temple: “a golden table, many talents of weight, and a lampstand (seven-branched menorah), likewise made of gold … after these, and last of all the spoils, was carried a copy of the Jewish Law.” This event is depicted in carved relief on the Arch of Titus erected in Rome and dedicated divo Tito, “to the deified Titus,” after the emperor’s death in 81 AD.

> [@](#):
>
> The immense riches looted from the Temple treasury were used to strike coins with the legend JUDAEA CAPTA (‘Judea defeated’), a humiliating reminder to the Jews of Titus’ victory. During the four-year-long rebellion, the Romans took 97,000 prisoners. Thousands were forced to become gladiators and were killed in the arena fighting wild animals or fellow gladiators. Some were burned alive. Others were brought to Seleucia (port of Antioch in Syria) to dig a tunnel. Most of were brought to Rome and forced to build the Coliseum and Forum of Peace in the heart of Rome where the Temple menorah was exhibited.

[http://www.welcometohosanna.com/JERUSALEM\_TOUR/firstrevolt.htm](http://www.welcometohosanna.com/JERUSALEM_TOUR/firstrevolt.htm)

Transporting war captive slaves for “Triumphs” and death in the Arena wasn’t all that unusual.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/53 "2009-06-29T19:56:56Z")

</div>

> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> Not just Romans, that was pretty much a universal code in ancient time (and much later, even up to the Napoleonic times). If you surrendered your city quickly without a fuss you usually left alone with a bit of tribute exacted, and maybe a new ruler. If you held out and forced the enemy to into a siege(which usually as painful for the besiegers as the besieged), then when they finally break through the shit will definitely hit the fan, and you’ll be lucky if you survive long enough to be enslaved.
> 
> There we exceptions to this, but it’s pretty much the way things worked back then.

Different rules applied when the cities involved were owned by rebels. Certainly the Jews of Masada could expect little mercy if they surrendered - they were the last hold-outs of a rebellion than had cost Rome dearly.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/54 "2009-06-29T20:12:08Z")

</div>

German and Russian soldiers on the Eastern Front. There were solider who on purpose let themselves be run over by tanks between the tracks so they could place a mine under the tank. German Uboat men also appear to have taken on an extraordinary nail biting and dangerous profession.

Columbus.

Armstrong. First man on the Moon. Never a man so lonely. Sitting in a tiny capsule on top of a giant rocket filled with explosive fuel must have been a bit uncomfortable. But of all the places the mission could have gone deadly wrong I sometime think Armstrong and Buzz alone on the Moon must have been extremely edgy about the moon landing craft’s engines, if they had failed to start they would have been marooned further from home than any man ever before.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/55 "2009-06-29T20:15:30Z")

</div>

> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> Here I’ll put in my weekly plug for the awesome [History of Rome](http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/) podcast, which explains this in detail.

Though talking of that[this weeks episode](http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/the_history_of_rome/2009/06/60-no-better-slave-no-worse-master-the-history-of-rome.html) has an excellent example of cowardice by the Emporer Caligula who crossed the Rhine to attack Germania, where rather than actually enter the forest and attack the Germans (gods forbid that shits dangerous), he paid some allied Gauls to pretend to be Germans, and emerge from the forest to “attack” him. He then apparently spend the aftermath of the “battle” boasting about his bravery and how cowardly his troops were (apparently wondering round looking a little bemused instead of “fighting” off the attackers), before some really Germans turned up and he legged it back to the Roman side of the Rhine as fast as possible.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/56 "2009-06-29T20:46:56Z")

</div>

> [@Rune](#):
>
> German and Russian soldiers on the Eastern Front. There were solider who on purpose let themselves be run over by tanks between the tracks so they could place a mine under the tank. German Uboat men also appear to have taken on an extraordinary nail biting and dangerous profession.

I’d second that. There are some incredible stories of the bravery of Soviet troops (one that sticks in my mind is mortally wounded soviet soldiers apologizing for getting blood on their precious snow camouflage overalls, when his comrades come to retrieve them from their dying colleague).

Even Hilter said something along the lines of “just give a a division of troops like these”, when touring the newly captured city of Kiev, referring to the defenders. Of course one of the most tragic things about it is the few that survived Nazi captivity were treated as traitors and immediately sent to the Gulags.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/57 "2009-06-29T20:59:09Z")

</div>

There is no end of military bravery, but for me the necessity of doing whatever it takes and the lack of time to really think about any of the consequesnces really makes it easier. For me bravery requires risking your life to save another even after carefully considering it all.

**Bravery:** Ernest Shakleton’s rescue of his crew on Elephant Island is a glowing example of how a real man conducts himself.

**Cowardice:** [The Meduse’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medusa_(ship)) ill fated voyage is for me one of the most disgusting acts of cowardice I’ve ever read, the wikipedia article doesn’t even come close to explaining it all. The disaster came shortly after Napoleon’s fall and when the French public discovered what when down there was almost another revolution.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/58 "2009-06-29T21:09:05Z")

</div>

> [@Rune](#):
>
> Armstrong. First man on the Moon. Never a man so lonely. Sitting in a tiny capsule on top of a giant rocket filled with explosive fuel must have been a bit uncomfortable. But of all the places the mission could have gone deadly wrong I sometime think Armstrong and Buzz alone on the Moon must have been extremely edgy about the moon landing craft’s engines, if they had failed to start they would have been marooned further from home than any man ever before.

The Apollo 13 astronauts. The sheer ability to hold their shit together and jury-rig their spacecraft to get home was pretty badass.  
\*\*Sitnam \*\*beat me to Ernest Shackleton.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/59 "2009-06-29T22:22:05Z")

</div>

> [@jakesteele](#):
>
> If it weren’t for guys like that, we’d all be speaking german.

Why do people have to resort to this hyperbole? Is WW2 not justified enough that we have to make up totally absurd things like this to emphasize the need to fight it?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\
**Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311/60 "2009-06-29T23:24:29Z")

</div>

> [@Malthus](#):
>
> Transporting war captive slaves for “Triumphs” and death in the Arena wasn’t all that unusual.

Yes, but it wasn’t something that hapened every day or to whole cities. Furthermore, speaking to a previous poster as well, the Masadans could have arranged a surrender earlier. The longer they held out, the higher the price, but they would have survived and even gotten their freedom.

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311.md?page=2)

[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/historys-greatest-acts-of-bravery-and-cowardice/501311.md?page=4)
