# Hitchens Proof of God **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 16, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965 "2010-09-16T13:59:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yokan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@yokan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yokan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/21 "2010-09-16T18:22:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@yokan](#): > > > > When looking for a proper citation, I found out some more interesting details. See [this](http://www.jstor.org/stable/25007142?seq=2) article. Sorry if you don’t have access, but it’s what I have right now. What’s interesting is that in recounting the dream, Hitchens says “it was the only one that counted as recurrent and I had also experienced it as a waking fantasy.” > > > > Spooky, no? > > Not really, since we can only access the first page of the chapter, which only tells us that his brother told him he was Jewish when he was an adult. Is there any site that recounts this dream and his reaction to it? > **[Lynn Barber meets Christopher Hitchens](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/apr/14/politics)** > > Whether it's backing Dubya's war against terrorism or sticking the knife into the Queen Mum, you can always rely on Christopher Hitchens to say the unsayable. Lynn Barber enjoys a long lunch with the authentic voice of dissent. ---
**Author:** ![yokan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7c8e57/32.png) [@yokan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yokan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/22 "2010-09-16T18:24:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@yokan](#): > > > > Spooky, no? > > No. But then, I don’t think you’ll find any other explanation convincing and I doubt you’ll be surprised if your question gets negative responses. I don’t believe in God or religion, but the fact that I find this spooky means I won’t find any explanation sans God convincing? How wrong and how patronizing. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/23 "2010-09-16T18:36:16Z")
I’ve got an explanation that doesn’t include God: He’s lying. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/24 "2010-09-16T18:57:35Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I’ve got an explanation that doesn’t include God: He’s lying. Why is logical leap any more necessary than the OP’s? Is everyone who dreams of a plane crash lying or are they only lying if a plane actually crashes the next day? What does Christopher Hitchens of all people gain by lying about this? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/25 "2010-09-16T19:01:14Z")
Just seems like a bit of a coincidence to me. It’s a big ol’ world and even if the necessary details to produce the dream didn’t filter into his mind subconsiously at some point in his life before, it still could just be a coincidence. We don’t generally get to hear about all the dreams where people who know nothing about Judaism dream they they’re invited to join the Rabbi for a bacon sandwich, and this subsequently never happens. I had a dream, in which the phrase ‘The Turning Men’ was somehow impressed into my memory - on waking, I thought it would be a cool title for a work of art - maybe a sculpture. I found out there is already a series of paintings by that title, depicting scenes that were sort of what I had in mind for my sculpture. It’s either just coincidence, or maybe I heard about it at some time in the past, then forgot I’d heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![HawksPath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f07891/32.png) [@HawksPath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HawksPath)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/26 "2010-09-16T19:27:05Z")
Something I find interesting is knowing how common one in a million things happen. With a US population of over 307 million more than 307 people have a one in a million day today. On average more than 7K Americans have a 1 in a M hour today and when you get to minutes you’re getting close to half a million having a 1 in a M occurance. ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/27 "2010-09-16T19:28:26Z")
> [@yokan](#): > > I don’t believe in God or religion, but the fact that I find this spooky means I won’t find any explanation sans God convincing? How wrong and how patronizing. Well, it is your thread title. You’ll have to excuse us for thinking that’s your thesis. And it’s not spooky, it’s just coincidental. I’m sure [Cracked.com](http://Cracked.com) has an article somewhere about how our brains give mistaken significance to coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/28 "2010-09-16T19:38:07Z")
> [@yokan](#): > > Christopher Hitchens has recounted more than once a dream he had. In it, a Jew came over and asked him to join their minyan (prayer quorum which only Jews – and in Orthodox circles, only Jewish men – can join). Hitchens didn’t know he was Jewish then. How do you explain that? > > (I don’t believe in Judaism or religion of any kind, but it’s a pretty crazy story) David Hitchens says that his brother is only 1/32 Jewish, and I’m sure that a person who has studied the different religions as much as Christopher Hitchens has had numerous dreams about numerous religions. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/29 "2010-09-16T20:09:27Z")
I _do_ believe in God, and don’t find this ‘proof’ very convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/30 "2010-09-16T20:43:29Z")
> [@yokan](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > No. But then, I don’t think you’ll find any other explanation convincing and I doubt you’ll be surprised if your question gets negative responses. > > I don’t believe in God or religion, but the fact that I find this spooky means I won’t find any explanation sans God convincing? How wrong and how patronizing. Then why have you chosen to describe this as “spooky” and stuck with it? There’s no reason to drag deities into it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/31 "2010-09-16T20:46:16Z")
I had a dream last night that I was infected with some huge parasite. Guess I should go see my doctor. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/32 "2010-09-16T21:15:17Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > I’ve got an explanation that doesn’t include God: He’s lying. > > Why is logical leap any more necessary than the OP’s? > > Is everyone who dreams of a plane crash lying or are they only lying if a plane actually crashes the next day? > > What does Christopher Hitchens of all people gain by lying about this? 1.) I didn’t actually mean to say that he’s lying. I was offering that as an explanation that didn’t involve God. 2.) It certainly seems more credible that he’s pulling our chains if he only mentions the dream after discovering he’s got Jewish ancestry. It’d be like if that plane crash occurred and _then_ someone says “I predicted that it would go down!” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/33 "2010-09-16T21:17:41Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > 2.) It certainly seems more credible that he’s pulling our chains if he only mentions the dream after discovering he’s got Jewish ancestry. It’d be like if that plane crash occurred and _then_ someone says “I predicted that it would go down!” There’s no reason to assume he’s pulling anybody’s chain. But this is a good example of confirmation bias: if he hadn’t discovered he had Jewish ancestry, he probably wouldn’t be telling the story. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/34 "2010-09-16T21:25:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > 2.) It certainly seems more credible that he’s pulling our chains if he only mentions the dream after discovering he’s got Jewish ancestry. It’d be like if that plane crash occurred and _then_ someone says “I predicted that it would go down!” > > There’s no reason to assume he’s pulling anybody’s chain. But this is a good example of confirmation bias: if he hadn’t discovered he had Jewish ancestry, he probably wouldn’t be telling the story. Frankly, when it comes to matters of religion I tend to assume that chains are being pulled. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/35 "2010-09-16T21:31:14Z")
He is a devilish (so to speak) mischievous, twinkle in his inebriated eye sort of fellow. Maybe he _was_ just messin’ around. ---
**Author:** ![KRC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/45deac/32.png) [@KRC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KRC)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/36 "2010-09-16T21:33:28Z")
How dare you say dreams don’t make sense and tell us important stuff? I once dreamed I went to Heaven and got into their file cabinet. I found the file for the German terrorist Ulrike Meinhof and opened it so I could find out where she’d gone. Much to my horror, she’d been reincarnated as my parrot. But it made sense. My bird is a **Ringneck** parrot. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/37 "2010-09-16T22:10:05Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > 1.) I didn’t actually mean to say that he’s lying. I was offering that as an explanation that didn’t involve God. > 2.) It certainly seems more credible that he’s pulling our chains if he only mentions the dream after discovering he’s got Jewish ancestry. It’d be like if that plane crash occurred and _then_ someone says “I predicted that it would go down!” Why would he mention it before discovering his ancestry. It has no significance before that. If someone said “I predicted that it would go down!”, I’d be more inclined to speculate that they sincerely believe it than that they’re lying. I’m funny that way. Nevertheless, I didn’t see anything in the link where he said he predicted anything. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/38 "2010-09-16T23:14:58Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > 1.) I didn’t actually mean to say that he’s lying. I was offering that as an explanation that didn’t involve God. > > 2.) It certainly seems more credible that he’s pulling our chains if he only mentions the dream after discovering he’s got Jewish ancestry. It’d be like if that plane crash occurred and _then_ someone says “I predicted that it would go down!” > > Why would he mention it before discovering his ancestry. It has no significance before that. Guess he’s SOL then. The point is, any of us can claim to have dreamed about things in our lives that then came true. Mix in that this is regarding his religious beliefs and yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a lie. Do you also believe most self-described psychics sincerely believe that they have powers? I think that most of them are con artists. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/39 "2010-09-16T23:18:08Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Mix in that this is regarding his religious beliefs and yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a lie. I’m confused. How do his religious beliefs make it more likely he’d lie about this? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965/40 "2010-09-17T01:33:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > Mix in that this is regarding his religious beliefs and yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a lie. > > I’m confused. How do his religious beliefs make it more likely he’d lie about this? His beliefs don’t make me more likely to believe that he’s lying, but the fact that he’s talking about divine experiences. Just as an example, if a person tells me that they believe in God, of course I don’t think that they’re lying. But if they tell me that they’ve seen angels (and I have been told this) I’d sooner think that they’re lying than crazy. Obviously that isn’t the same situation because he’s not claiming to have seen the impossible, he’s just recounting a dream that the had, but yeah. If I had to wager any amount of money I’d say he’s not lying and that this is confirmation bias or whatever. I’m just always surprised that in UFO/ghost/religious stories people seem reluctant to suggest that someone could just be making shit up and instead bend over backwards to provide other ways to explain things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitchens-proof-of-god/553965.md?page=3)