# Hitler's Aircraft Carrier...FOUND! Newslink. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 31, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758 "2006-07-31T19:21:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/1 "2006-07-31T19:21:22Z")
The long-lost wreck of the Nazi Aircraft Carrier _Graf Zeppelin_ was found by Polish divers looking for oil. I am _so glad_ they didn’t get this finished! > **[The Times & The Sunday Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/)** > > News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times > [@](#): > > For more than half a century the location of the huge vessel was kept secret by the Soviet authorities. Even the opening of the Moscow archives in the 1990s failed to produce a precise bearing. The once-proud ship was simply one of dozens of wrecks that littered the bed of the Baltic Sea near the Bay of Gdansk. > > “We were carrying out soundings for possible oil exploration,” Krzysztof Grabowski, of the Petrobaltic exploration group, said. “Then we stumbled across a vessel that was over 260 metres (850ft) long at a depth of 250 metres.” The sucker was longer than the ocean was deep! ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/2 "2006-07-31T19:28:55Z")
Man, oh, man, am I glad they never got this thing fully operational. What was the hang up? Couldn’t they see the military value of an aircraft carrier? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/3 "2006-07-31T19:32:49Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Man, oh, man, am I glad they never got this thing fully operational. What was the hang up? Couldn’t they see the military value of an aircraft carrier? Catfight betwwe the Navy & the Luftwaff. Nobody was willing to bend, so it sat out the War in dock. That thing coulda shown up off New York City with Incendiaries & HE under it’s planes’ wings and… :eek: ! They’s have given **us** what **we** gave to Berlin! ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/4 "2006-07-31T19:47:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Polish divers looking for oil. Is that really how the Polish look for oil? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/5 "2006-07-31T20:28:26Z")
Is this the ship that the German Navy insisted on refering to as “he”? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/6 "2006-07-31T20:38:37Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Is this the ship that the German Navy insisted on refering to as “he”? Well, sure, otherwise it’d be the “Grafina Zeppelin.” ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/7 "2006-07-31T21:04:30Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Is that really how the Polish look for oil? Yes. The trawling nets weren’t successful enough. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/8 "2006-07-31T21:17:41Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > That thing coulda shown up off New York City with Incendiaries & HE under it’s planes’ wings and… :eek: ! Hard to imagine it even getting out of the North Sea, even if it was completed in early 1942. Land-based Allied air-cover, and the Germans didn’t really have all that much in the way of ships to provide an escort. Possible with a simultaneous breakout from Norway by the Tirpitz, but unlikely IMO. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/9 "2006-07-31T21:19:26Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > Hard to imagine it even getting out of the North Sea, even if it was completed in early 1942. Land-based Allied air-cover, and the Germans didn’t really have all that much in the way of ships to provide an escort. Possible with a simultaneous breakout from Norway by the Tirpitz, but unlikely IMO. This is why Germany rarely builds aircraft carriers in Axis & Allies. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/10 "2006-07-31T21:19:58Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Is this the ship that the German Navy insisted on refering to as “he”? There were several times when it was attempted to establish that usage when referring to “special” ships but it never really caught on. One was the pre-WW1 ocean liner [Imperator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Imperator), another was the Bismarck (the battleship, incidentally the Imperator also had a sister ship named Bismarck) and, as you said, the Graf Zeppelin. Probably there were others. They all had masculine names but so did most German navy ships. Normally this didn’t keep anyone - not even the sailors serving on those ships - from using the traditional “she.” In German this distinction is more visible than in English because the gender is also used for articles and attributive adjectives. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/11 "2006-07-31T21:29:19Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > This is why Germany rarely builds aircraft carriers in Axis & Allies. I’ve never played it. I get all my military hypotheticals from Risk. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/12 "2006-08-01T10:43:33Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > I’ve never played it. I get all my military hypotheticals from Risk. 😉 I get mine from _Civilization_, and let me tell you, Germans build as many carriers as anyone else, but usually only when they’ve made Eurasia-Africa their bitch. > [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > That thing coulda shown up off New York City with Incendiaries & HE under it’s planes’ wings and… ! > > They’s have given us what we gave to Berlin! [crusty old Brit]Oh, get a grip, Yank. How much damage could one carrier-load have done you, even if it got past everything in the Atlantic and you had no home air defences? You’re lucky you never lived through the Blitz.[/coB] ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/13 "2006-08-01T11:44:04Z")
High-ranking Nazi officials began to seriously question Hitler’s sanity when he unveiled plans for the construction of an enormous zeppelin, which would be named \*Aircraft Carrier \* “to confuse the enemy.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/14 "2006-08-01T12:52:59Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I get mine from _Civilization_, and let me tell you, Germans build as many carriers as anyone else, but usually only when they’ve made Eurasia-Africa their bitch. > > [crusty old Brit]Oh, get a grip, Yank. How much damage could one carrier-load have done you, even if it got past everything in the Atlantic and you had no home air defences? You’re lucky you never lived through the Blitz.[/coB] OK, how about the planned Nazi “dirty bomb”? Or Hitler’s store of nerve gas? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/15 "2006-08-01T14:35:11Z")
Did the Germans ever develop a carrier-based fighter plane? I can’t imagine the ME-109 being used for such a role. This ship was built in the late 1930’s-so why was it never used? There were a few carrier designes in the 1930’s (British I think) that had forward gun turrets- did the Graf Zeppelin have them. I agree, building an aircraft carrier for service in the baltic was pretty stupid. There was no way this ship was worth its investment, when they could have built 20 submarines for the price of this ship. Incidentally, the Italian navy never developed carriers as well-Mussolini didn’t think the expense was worthwhile-boy was he wrong! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/16 "2006-08-01T16:04:50Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Did the Germans ever develop a carrier-based fighter plane? I can’t imagine the ME-109 being used for such a role. Wrong! Twice! 1)The correct designation was Bf 109. 2)And— > **[Messerschmitt Bf 109 (Me 109) - History and Pictures of German WW2 Fighter Plane](https://acepilots.com/german/bf109.html)** > > Development of the Messerschmitt Bf 109, its different models, and its service in World War Two and the Spanish Civil War > [@](#): > > Experimental Bf 109s > In its long life, the Bf 109 served as a platform for numerous experimental and radical ideas, from skis to a twin fuselage to the bizarre “Mistel” arrangement. A carrier version, the Bf 109T, actually reached production, 40 being built. After the cancellation of the German carriers, Peter Strasser and Graf Zeppelin, the Bf 109T’s were assigned to Norway and Heligoland, where their short take-off capabilities were useful. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/17 "2006-08-01T20:46:43Z")
The [Ju87C](http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/ju87c.html) version of the Stuka was also intended for the Graf Zeppelin. I believe they were all converted before they went into service to remove most of the carrier modifications and bring them to almost the standard Ju87B version, but the jettisonable undercarriage was retained and used in at least one emergency landing during later service on the Eastern front. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/18 "2006-08-01T21:51:56Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Wrong! Twice! You’re still hyperventilating. The Bf-109T was a Bf-109 **E** fitted out with some of the gear necessary for carrier work. In other words, by the time the ship had been launched (in its most optimistic scenario) the fliers would have been stuck with a bird that was already two years out of date, further encumbered by the extra weight of the strengthened undercarriage and catapult and arrestor hooks. The Ju-87 was just as little a threat. It worked well provided it was flying around fully defended by fighters, but in a situation where it had to defend itself, it was a flying tomb. In addition, the _Graf Zeppelin_ was only expected to carry about two thirds the air complement of any U.S. fleet carrier. Against any U.S. fleet carrier or pair of U.S. light carriers, it would have been flying a smaller number of outdated aircraft and handled by people who had fifteen fewer years’ experience actually plotting carrier combat. I wish they had finished it. Think of the submarine resources that they would have had to divert to get it built so we could sink it. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/19 "2006-08-01T22:12:12Z")
I smell a new _Dirk Pitt_ novel in the making. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758/20 "2006-08-01T22:50:33Z")
> [@](#): > > In addition, the Graf Zeppelin was only expected to carry about two thirds the air complement of any U.S. fleet carrier. Against any U.S. fleet carrier or pair of U.S. light carriers, it would have been flying a smaller number of outdated aircraft and handled by people who had fifteen fewer years’ experience actually plotting carrier combat. Considering the US ended the war with about 30 (thirty) odd fleet carriers (IIRC, there were 26 Essex class fleet carriers alone), I’d say the German CV was probably not the most effective use of their resources. 😛 This is MPSIMS, so it may be of interest that a good number of characters from the anime series Neon Genesis Evangelion are named after aircraft carriers, and of course naval fleets are figured prominently in the first few episodes. Asuka Soryu Langley - [CV-1 Langley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Langley_%28CV-1%29), [Soryu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soryu) Asuka’s mother, Kyoku **Zeppelin** Soryu Misato [Katsuragi](http://www.combinedfleet.com/unryu_c.htm) Ritsuko and Naoko [Akagi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Akagi) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitlers-aircraft-carrier-found-newslink/366758.md?page=2)