# Hitman ethics: A Skaldian hypothetical **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 26, 2018, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844 "2018-05-26T04:26:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/41 "2018-05-28T05:01:58Z")
I voted 4, but I could as easily vote 3. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/42 "2018-05-28T14:31:59Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > There is a Lawrence Block novel featuring a hit-man named Keller. He is hired to kill the wife and her lover (IIRC) but it turns out the husband and wife have reunited and are celebrating. Keller kills the husband (client) and frames the wife for his death. > > Or something along those lines. There’s another Keller story with a similar dilemma: - A and B are wealthy, powerful men in partnership with each other. - Keller is hired through a middleman by client A to kill his business partner, B, so A can take over the whole business. Pays half in advance. - A boasts to his best friend that he’s hired a killer to kill B. - The best friend immediately betrays A, rushing to tell B. B is now forewarned and takes all sorts of precautions - hires guards, never goes out, etc. - B is, naturally, very alarmed and annoyed; he goes to a middleman, hires a killer to kill A. - This middleman also hires Keller. – Now Keller has a contract to kill B from A, and one to kill A from B. Both have paid half in advance. Killing either one would earn him one-and-one-half (as the dead guy won’t be getting his cash back). – Who should Keller kill? Does the contract with A contain an implied exclusivity clause? A would be easier to kill than B, as A is not expecting it. Has A violated his agreement by his boasting, which made killing B more difficult? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/43 "2018-05-28T15:00:03Z")
What would Lee Van Cleef do? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/44 "2018-05-28T16:21:43Z")
Keller rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/45 "2018-05-28T17:42:23Z")
Yeah, I think this hypothetical is broken; If I was a hit man I would get a picture of the target to make sure I actually IDed the right person. So either I’m just an incompetent hit man and this is the wake up call to get out of the business, or my contract was not actually to kill ‘her husband’ but to kill ‘the person using the garage at this time’ and I fulfilled it, even though she specified badly. More generally, if I had no problem killing people for money, I can’t see why I’d have a problem killing someone to protect me from a snitch going to the cops and keeping her money or why I’d feel compelled to kill someone that no one else knows I had a contract for. Once I’ve made the leap to ‘killing people for money is cool’, I’m not going to impose a weird condition like ‘but only if another person offers you the money to kill someone’. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/46 "2018-05-28T18:36:01Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > There’s another Keller story with a similar dilemma: > > - A and B are wealthy, powerful men in partnership with each other. > > - Keller is hired through a middleman by client A to kill his business partner, B, so A can take over the whole business. Pays half in advance. > > - A boasts to his best friend that he’s hired a killer to kill B. > > - The best friend immediately betrays A, rushing to tell B. B is now forewarned and takes all sorts of precautions - hires guards, never goes out, etc. > > - B is, naturally, very alarmed and annoyed; he goes to a middleman, hires a killer to kill A. > > - This middleman also hires Keller. > > – Now Keller has a contract to kill B from A, and one to kill A from B. Both have paid half in advance. Killing either one would earn him one-and-one-half (as the dead guy won’t be getting his cash back). > > – Who should Keller kill? Does the contract with A contain an implied exclusivity clause? A would be easier to kill than B, as A is not expecting it. Has A violated his agreement by his boasting, which made killing B more difficult? Not worth it to kill either one. Just pocket the money and go home. Except… I guess he’s going to get somebody, cause he’s a natural born Keller. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/47 "2018-05-28T18:50:05Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Not worth it to kill either one. Just pocket the money and go home. > > Except… I guess he’s going to get somebody, cause he’s a natural born Keller. 🙂 Ha! 😃 Well … from a purely financial point of view, it makes most sense to kill A. He’s not expecting it, and it would be easy to make an excuse to get near him. Then you earn 1.5 fees, while if you just go home, you earn only 1 fee (plus have two angry clients after you). Of course, Keller, being Keller, doesn’t do that … he eventually decides that the only fair thing would be to kill them both. Which of course makes no financial sense at all, you only get 1 fee, same as if you did nothing at all - plus all the danger and difficulty of killing two people (one of whom was on guard). ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/48 "2018-05-28T20:49:09Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > There’s another Keller story with a similar dilemma: > > - A and B are wealthy, powerful men in partnership with each other. > > - Keller is hired through a middleman by client A to kill his business partner, B, so A can take over the whole business. Pays half in advance. > > - A boasts to his best friend that he’s hired a killer to kill B. > > - The best friend immediately betrays A, rushing to tell B. B is now forewarned and takes all sorts of precautions - hires guards, never goes out, etc. > > - B is, naturally, very alarmed and annoyed; he goes to a middleman, hires a killer to kill A. > > - This middleman also hires Keller. > > – Now Keller has a contract to kill B from A, and one to kill A from B. Both have paid half in advance. Killing either one would earn him one-and-one-half (as the dead guy won’t be getting his cash back). > > – Who should Keller kill? Does the contract with A contain an implied exclusivity clause? A would be easier to kill than B, as A is not expecting it. Has A violated his agreement by his boasting, which made killing B more difficult? Approach either A or B and let that one know that there is a contract out on their life. Tell them that the police are working on it, but that until the guy is caught, they should fake their own death. Which you are willing to help them with, since you know so much about violent death. So, [ul] [li]A fakes his death. [/li][li]Go to B and collect fee for A’s death. [/li][li]Kill B after collecting fee. [/li][li]Go to A and collect fee for B’s death. [/li][li]If it’s so important for your rep that you never fail to execute a contract, Kill A. [/li][li]Profit.[/li][/ul] A hypo about the ethics of hit men is pretty funny on the face of it, when AIUI, for the most part they are either sociopathic petty thugs or members of organized crime, and therefore don’t have any. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/49 "2018-05-28T21:28:34Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Approach either A or B and let that one know that there is a contract out on their life. Tell them that the police are working on it, but that until the guy is caught, they should fake their own death. Which you are willing to help them with, since you know so much about violent death. > > So, > [ul] > [li]A fakes his death. [/li][li]Go to B and collect fee for A’s death. [/li][li]Kill B after collecting fee. [/li][li]Go to A and collect fee for B’s death. [/li][li]If it’s so important for your rep that you never fail to execute a contract, Kill A. [/li][li]Profit.[/li][/ul] I like your solution! Earns you 2 fees, rather than 1.5. 🆒 > [@](#): > > A hypo about the ethics of hit men is pretty funny on the face of it, when AIUI, for the most part they are either sociopathic petty thugs or members of organized crime, and therefore don’t have any. Of course. This is where the humor in the Keller stories comes from - the author uses various authorial tricks to get the readers to sympathize with Keller, who kills people for profit but comes across as very much a likable fellow … who even worries that he may be the bad guy. 😃 Keller worries about ethics all the time, even while realizing his profession of necessity lacks them. As readers, you kick yourself every once in a while, because of course Keller is a bad guy - he kills people for money, so sympathy for him is misplaced. Of course, that is fiction, so the incongruity of sympathizing for a hired killer can be played for dark humor. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/50 "2018-05-28T23:47:18Z")
I didn’t even read the thread OP or the option descriptions, I just voted for the one option that hadn’t been chosen yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/51 "2018-05-29T00:30:24Z")
If I’m a professional hitman, I’m not in this business because I give a damn what other people think of me; I do it because it’s a lucrative way of earning money. OK, I screwed up and I’m not going to be getting any referrals from this client. But she threatened to go to the cops and in my book that’s an automatic death sentence. I got paid, I already have two bodies I have to dispose of, and client satisfaction is completely down the crapper; wtf do I need or want to kill the husband for? Heck, if it ever becomes an issue maybe the authorities will figure the husband killed them. So what do I take away from this whole fiasco? Always positively ID a target, and for f\*\*\*'s sake don’t do domestic jobs- it’s just not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/52 "2018-05-29T00:42:20Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > The plot of the first Jack Reacher movie revolves around a apparently random spree killing via sniper rifle that disguised the intended murder of one of the victims. So did an episode of _ **Law & Order: SVU** _, which featured a school shooting with an particularly evil twist: The victim was an African-American child who’d been adopted by white parents- who turned out to be white supremacists who took out a life insurance policy on the victim to fund their paramilitary activities :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/53 "2018-05-29T01:05:29Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Approach either A or B and let that one know that there is a contract out on their life. Tell them that the police are working on it, but that until the guy is caught, they should fake their own death. Which you are willing to help them with, since you know so much about violent death. > > So, > [ul] > [li]A fakes his death. [/li][li]Go to B and collect fee for A’s death. [/li][li]Kill B after collecting fee. [/li][li]Go to A and collect fee for B’s death. [/li][li]If it’s so important for your rep that you never fail to execute a contract, Kill A. [/li][li]Profit.[/li][/ul] Brilliant! Of course if professional reputation means anything at all this may be problematic, but you can’t have everything. > [@](#): > > A hypo about the ethics of hit men is pretty funny on the face of it, when AIUI, for the most part they are either sociopathic petty thugs or members of organized crime, and therefore don’t have any. Actually there’s the Assassins’ Guild in Ankh-Morpork, who have no morals but they do have professional standards. Among other things they believe in no collateral damage, and they don’t simply hire a gang of toughs to kill someone on the street. They’re _Assassins_. ---
**Author:** ![K2500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@K2500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K2500)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/54 "2018-05-29T04:40:35Z")
Ethically it’s a difficult one. I complete the contract, a man dead in a place and time as described. No way to know the face unless provided. The wife must go for contract violation. But. Do I let an uninvolved person, the husband, take the fall for two killings when he himself has done no wrong. He hired no killer, he was fateful to his wife. His only crime, being in the way. Seems there is more to consider. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/55 "2018-05-29T05:42:00Z")
> [@K2500](#): > > But. Do I let an uninvolved person, the husband, take the fall for two killings when he himself has done no wrong. He hired no killer, he was fateful to his wife. His only crime, being in the way. I seriously doubt that if killing people doesn’t bother you, allowing someone to take the blame isn’t high up there on your list of worries. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/56 "2018-05-29T18:09:35Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The hitman should kill himself for being an incompetent boob. Dead men have no ethical dilemmas. Al la In Bruges? Great flick if you haven’t seen it. It deals with hitmen and their mistakes. Very funny. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/57 "2018-05-29T18:37:44Z")
She paid in advance, like a sucker. I wouldn’t have bothered killing anyone. What’s she going to do, hire someone else to kill her husband, then come after me? I don’t think so. But, given we’re already at the point where two people are dead, including the person who hired me, I’m still just going home for pie. I’m a professional murderer, what do I care about ethics? . ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/58 "2018-05-29T18:46:00Z")
> [@K2500](#): > > Ethically it’s a difficult one. I complete the contract, a man dead in a place and time as described. No way to know the face unless provided. The wife must go for contract violation. > > But. Do I let an uninvolved person, the husband, take the fall for two killings when he himself has done no wrong. He hired no killer, he was fateful to his wife. His only crime, being in the way. > > Seems there is more to consider. But, you were willing to kill him at the start, in exchange for money, with no moral qualms. Besides, you are not an amatuer. You disposed of the bodies. As far as the law knows, they are not dead, they are just missing. Just leave behind a bit of evidence that indicates the wife and lover ran off together. > [@DCnDC](#): > > She paid in advance, like a sucker. I wouldn’t have bothered killing anyone. What’s she going to do, hire someone else to kill her husband, then come after me? I don’t think so. > > But, given we’re already at the point where two people are dead, including the person who hired me, I’m still just going home for pie. I’m a professional murderer, what do I care about ethics? > . You are not a professional murder if you take the money and _don’t_ kill people. That’s just a garden variety con-artist. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/59 "2018-05-29T18:50:42Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Leave the husband alive. No sense in extra risks. She failed to brief you on everything you needed to know to successfully complete your job. (Also, apparently you aren’t very good at your job, since you didn’t know what your target looked like, or verify his identify before you killed him.) This. I’m clearly a dangerously incompetent hitman anyway, killing more people won’t help that and I’m likely to make an even bigger hash of the situation. Pretty sure this situation is way outside the scope of ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844/60 "2018-05-29T22:52:42Z")
First off, IF I’m a Hit-Man worthy of calling myself a professional I don’t have a “usual disposal spot.” Second, given the same professionality, I know better than to use any vehicle more than once for a job so I don’t have “my trunk” to throw the body into. I might throw it into ‘the’ trunk for ‘the’ stolen-car-of-the day/week/moment. I didn’t vote because I didn’t have a “none of the above” option to choose. ---- Hat Trick! ---- A) However I killed the boyfriend is how I’ll kill the cheating wife. B) I kill the husband specifically by approaching from behind and popping his neck forward over my wrist C) I place the cheaters’ bodies in the master bed D) I string the husband’s body up somewhere with a noose & whatever accessories seem logical. In his pocked will be a single page with four typed/printed words on it: What Have I Done?! Case created & solved: Husband caught the cheaters & killed them, was shocked at his crime, and committed suicide (the noose broke his neck). I’ve already been paid; I will lay low for a while. The cops have a simple case and no reason to look for complications. –G! Concrete Shoes… Cyanide… TNT! …–Angus Young (AC/DC) …_Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap_ …Dirty Deeds, Done Dirt Cheap [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hitman-ethics-a-skaldian-hypothetical/814844.md?page=4)