# hmm - maybe calling your opponents Anti-American isn't such a good strategy after all **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342 "2008-10-24T13:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/1 "2008-10-24T13:24:18Z")
The Republican National Congressional Committee has suspended its campaign funding in Representative Bachmann’s district: [GOP Pulling Its Ads From Bachmann’s Race, Media Buyers Say](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/22/gop-pulling-its-ads-from_n_136941.html). The pullout follows a surge in fundraising by her Democratic opponent, after her comments about Obama and liberals being anti-American: > [@](#): > > In the days following her appearance on Hardball, however, Bachmann has watched as her challenger, El Tinklenberg raised more than a million dollars off her incendiary remarks. That surge in fundraising put Bachmann’s re-election in a far less certain position. Bachmann tried to stem the bleeding by telling the press she was sorry for her remarks. But with the national party now apparently pulling the plug, the situation has gone from bad to worse. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/2 "2008-10-24T13:46:58Z")
Americans love being able to be righteously outraged. It brings an intoxicating sense of being right while others are wrong. It reinforces beliefs, gives a sense of power, and is almost addictive. And it is a great motivator. The Civil Rights movement used it very effectively to finally institute changes in segregated South. Dozens of preachers became mega-millionaires playing it up for the “Moral Majority”. And the Republican party has wielded it to increase fundraising for decades. Now it appears that the Democrats are finally catching up. Sure using righteous indignation politically leads to divisiveness, unwillingness to compromise, and a breakdown of honest debate and discussion. Which, as we’ve seen over the last 3 elections, is having dire consequences for political discourse in our country. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/3 "2008-10-24T13:47:15Z")
Lying about it probably didn’t help either. Dear politicians: if you say something dumb on camera, it will be caught, and it will be on youtube soon. You can’t just pretend you never said it like in 1998. When you try, you look like an idiot, and you’re underestimating our intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/4 "2008-10-24T14:16:01Z")
Bad, bad Tweety Bird. He set a twap and forced her to walk _rrrriiiiggghht_ into it, sputterin’ and spittin’ all the way. “I tought I saw a lunatic. I did, I did!” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/5 "2008-10-24T15:26:29Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Sure using righteous indignation politically leads to divisiveness, unwillingness to compromise, and a breakdown of honest debate and discussion. Which, as we’ve seen over the last 3 elections, is having dire consequences for political discourse in our country. What if your righteous outrage is at the very divisiveness and breakdown of honest discussion? Does that just replace the old division with a new one? I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/6 "2008-10-24T15:26:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Lying about it probably didn’t help either. > > Dear politicians: if you say something dumb on camera, it will be caught, and it will be on youtube soon. You can’t just pretend you never said it like in 1998. When you try, you look like an idiot, and you’re underestimating our intelligence. I think you’ve hit on the one huge change in society that’s going to make bullshit-as-usual politics difficult from here on out. Having a resource that removes the average bullshitter politician’s ability to wave his/her hands and make the quote go away is absolutely delicious. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/7 "2008-10-24T15:31:33Z")
You mean it doesn’t work any more? Oh, frabjous day, I chortle in my glee! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/8 "2008-10-24T15:48:56Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I think you’ve hit on the one huge change in society that’s going to make bullshit-as-usual politics difficult from here on out. Having a resource that removes the average bullshitter politician’s ability to wave his/her hands and make the quote go away is absolutely delicious. The other change, people have a ton of “news” to choose from via the internet, and they “choose” it by reading about it on blogs, getting emails from their friends - its viral. Used to be if the campaign wanted the news cycle to be about taxes, they just gave the reporters taxes. Any other conversation was parried, delayed. You had to be persistent and it had to be big to get more attention. And to get big attention, it had to last long enough for new magazines to write about it and get published. Now, if the “people” decide to engage in RO about “anti-American witch hunts” or be bemused about $150,000 spending sprees, its much harder to parry and turn the conversation. Today, someone is seeing Bachmann on Hardball for the first time, because some friend sent them the link. It hasn’t died a quiet death as the news cycle moves on. They started sharing it the minute it happened - and they haven’t stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/9 "2008-10-24T16:07:09Z")
Can we just take Michele Bachmann and [Jean Schmidt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Schmidt) and chain them up in a (figurative, political) dungeon somewhere where they’re subjected to (ideological) starvation and regular (notional) beatings? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/10 "2008-10-24T16:10:04Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > What if your righteous outrage is at the very divisiveness and breakdown of honest discussion? Does that just replace the old division with a new one? I’m not so sure. Is this like the “can you be tolerant of intolerance” stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/11 "2008-10-24T16:15:29Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Americans love being able to be righteously outraged. It brings an intoxicating sense of being right while others are wrong. It reinforces beliefs, gives a sense of power, and is almost addictive. > > And it is a great motivator. > > The Civil Rights movement used it very effectively to finally institute changes in segregated South. Dozens of preachers became mega-millionaires playing it up for the “Moral Majority”. And the Republican party has wielded it to increase fundraising for decades. Now it appears that the Democrats are finally catching up. > > Sure using righteous indignation politically leads to divisiveness, unwillingness to compromise, and a breakdown of honest debate and discussion. Which, as we’ve seen over the last 3 elections, is having dire consequences for political discourse in our country. Yeah, that’s it. It’s not calling your political opponents “Anti-American” that’s divisive and causing dire consequences, it’s being outraged at being called anti-American that’s REALLY dividing us. /rolleyes ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/12 "2008-10-24T16:15:32Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Is this like the “can you be tolerant of intolerance” stuff? If a Republican cuts down a tree in the forest after having tied up, blindfolded and earplugged the Democrat, will he lie about the tree making a sound? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/13 "2008-10-24T16:43:40Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Is this like the “can you be tolerant of intolerance” stuff? You tell me. It’s your argument. I and the other in this thread have taken you to be saying that righteousness at division itself causes division. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/14 "2008-10-24T16:50:32Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Americans love being able to be righteously outraged. . . . > > And it is a great motivator. > > The Civil Rights movement used it very effectively to finally institute changes in segregated South. You say that last part like it’s a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/15 "2008-10-24T16:52:55Z")
This chick is all kinds of crazy. She deserves to lose and lose badly. Coming from the South, I always assume the worst of wignuttery is always going to be Southern, but sometimes I’m pleasantly surprised. Seriously, this divisive bullshit has to end. It’s about time the majority of Americans wake up and realize that they are F#@^$&% us over while they have us fretting over gun-rights (which will never change) and gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/16 "2008-10-24T17:10:46Z")
Other times Bacchmann has been in the news include: Trying to get a kiss from Bush (?): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/930gQZmC6iE/hqdefault.jpg "Bachman feeling up Bush") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=930gQZmC6iE) The “caribou love the oil pipeline” remarks: [http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/20/bachmann-caribou-coffee/](http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/20/bachmann-caribou-coffee/) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/17 "2008-10-24T17:55:17Z")
I think the Republicans are proving that you can underestimate the intelligence (and tolerance) of the American public. They get nastier and nastier and their poll numbers drop and drop, and they appear to be too stupid to make the connection. Maybe if McCain and Bachman get thrashed, Rove’s disciples will find it tough to get jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/18 "2008-10-24T23:12:34Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Maybe if McCain and Bachman get thrashed, Rove’s disciples will find it tough to get jobs. _pats **Voyager** on the head_ You kids and your wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/19 "2008-10-25T17:21:43Z")
Look, Bachman was simply taking care of business. And if you think what she said was horrible, well then, you ain’t seen nothing yet. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342/20 "2008-10-25T22:22:01Z")
\>Yeah, that’s it. It’s not calling your political opponents “Anti-American” that’s divisive and causing dire consequences, it’s being outraged at being called anti-American that’s REALLY dividing us. /rolleyes Mosier, thank you for that. I watched Bachman that night on Hardball and sent Tinklenberg $50. Hamlet had me feeling rather pawnlike, there. Now I feel better again. The presidential race cost over a billion, whereas this little creepshow was but a million. I’d have had to donate $50,000 to participate similarly - and I can’t afford to get anywhere near the current legal limit as it is. What a nice way for us little people to feel part of the whole process. The Bachmans of the world create little political kiddie pools, so everybody can have fun! \>And if you think what she said was horrible, well then, you ain’t seen nothing yet. “Horrible”'s a pretty wide bucket. Chinese abuse of intellectual property law is horrible. The Holocaust was horrible. The first few minutes after waking from surgery is often kind of horrible. So, where, Nobody, do you think people are going? Who’s going to step up to the plate now? What will no longer be sacred? What will we see? More particularly, is there a particular political show to watch for it??? I can’t wait. I’ve always had this, I dunno, this thing for moral failure. I can’t get enough. It’s like cinnamon scent drifting from a bakery to me. Way back in 2001 - remember summer of 2001? Remember? So long ago. Bill Clinton was telling Gary Condit, “Hell, Gary, at least when I was done with them they were still breathing!” Life seemed so simple then, but also so safe, almost boring. The entertainment value of politics has become so concentrated, it’s like tasting the snaps on a 9V battery. Like they used to answer about why they listened to the Howard Stern show, “I want to see what he’ll say next!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-maybe-calling-your-opponents-anti-american-isnt-such-a-good-strategy-after-all/469342.md?page=2)