# Hmm,probably not the smartest idea...\[Pope's preacher compares abuse row to anti-Semitism\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756 "2010-04-02T18:31:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![qbadger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/fbc32d/32.png) [@qbadger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qbadger)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/1 "2010-04-02T18:31:13Z")
to have brought [this](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8601084.stm) up, considering the papal actions during the Holocaust are not exactly beyond reproach. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/2 "2010-04-02T18:33:32Z")
Those fuckers have a lot of nerve, making themselves out to be the victims. I say we invade. Those Swiss Guards may be tough cookies, but there just aren’t that many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/3 "2010-04-02T18:38:08Z")
My jaw dropped when I read that. They must either think that molesting kids and covering it up isn’t so bad, or else that the Jews who were victims of anti-semitism did something to deserve what happened to them. Either one is repugnant. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/4 "2010-04-02T18:45:23Z")
Holy Shit. And I mean that. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/5 "2010-04-02T18:47:53Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > My jaw dropped when I read that. > > They must either think that molesting kids and covering it up isn’t so bad, or else that the Jews who were victims of anti-semitism did something to deserve what happened to them. Either one is repugnant. To be entirely fair, I think they just believe the former, and not the latter. That not so bad, right? ---
**Author:** ![Surly\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/6 "2010-04-02T18:50:46Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I say we invade. Those Swiss Guards may be tough cookies, but there just aren’t that many of them. Tough? C’mon, they wear pantaloons and tights. Pansies. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/7 "2010-04-02T18:54:43Z")
You know “anti-semite” has become an abused, meaningless slur when even the Catholic Church uses it to tar their critics. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/8 "2010-04-02T18:56:11Z")
I came here specifically to start a thread on this. It is beyond belief, even considering my already negative opinion of them. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/9 "2010-04-02T19:30:49Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > They must either think that molesting kids and covering it up isn’t so bad, or else that the Jews who were victims of anti-semitism did something to deserve what happened to them. Either one is repugnant. I don’t think the guy was trying to say either. He was trying to say that trying to blame the entire church for the actions of a few priests is like trying to blame all Jews for the action of a few. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/10 "2010-04-02T19:37:27Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think the guy was trying to say either. He was trying to say that trying to blame the entire church for the actions of a few priests is like trying to blame all Jews for the action of a few. I think you’re right, but then that raises the question, what were the “few Jews” doing that is comparable to what the Catholic church is being accused of. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/11 "2010-04-02T19:38:45Z")
> [@Surly\_Chick](#): > > Tough? C’mon, they wear pantaloons and tights. Pansies. We’re men We’re men in tights We roam around the forest looking for fights they could be the toughest SOBs in the world, when it comes to hand to hand combat, but an air strike sort of cancels that out, ya think? > [@](#): > > Pope Benedict’s personal preacher has compared criticism of the pontiff and Church over child abuse to “collective violence” suffered by the Jews. To take a quote from the book of Dirty Harry, “what about the victims?” The news descriptions of the crimes (and YES we are talking about crimes) sounded pretty damn violent, No. This is their mess, they created it and propogated it and perpetuated it and enabled it. Now they can either fix it, or go to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/12 "2010-04-02T19:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > In his sermon, he quoted a Jewish friend as saying the accusations reminded him of the “more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism”. He left out, “…while he was rolling his eyes and making a gesture with his fist near his crotch.” Context is important. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/13 "2010-04-02T19:40:06Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I think you’re right, but then that raises the question, what were the “few Jews” doing that is comparable to what the Catholic church is being accused of. Well, I’m sure one or two Jews have diddled some little deaf boys a few times. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_from\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Man\_from\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_from_Mars)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/14 "2010-04-02T19:40:58Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I think you’re right, but then that raises the question, what were the “few Jews” doing that is comparable to what the Catholic church is being accused of. It was only a “few Jews” who killed Jesus Christ, which led to the Catholic Church’s persecution of the entire population in the first place. The Church finally apologized about a million years later so they have every right, I guess, to use the victim defense. Incidentally, by “few Jews,” I mean “Roman soldiers.” ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/15 "2010-04-02T19:44:27Z")
What other defense do they have when they have been covering for a priest “who is thought to have abused some 200 deaf boys.!!” Seriously, the “look over there - anti-semitism” [quickly duck out the back door] plan is all they have left. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/16 "2010-04-02T19:52:12Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think the guy was trying to say either. He was trying to say that trying to blame the entire church for the actions of a few priests is like trying to blame all Jews for the action of a few. If all that had happened was that some priests molested some kids, that might work as an analogy. But that’s not all that happened. What happened is that some people in the Church hierarchy showed that they care more about the reputation of the Church than they do about punishing someone who molested children. If I knew that my congregation’s rabbi was molesting kids (which he isn’t, but just as a hypothetical example), I’d turn him in to the police. I would do that even though I know it would damage the reputation of Judaism and of my congregation. Stopping a child molester from offending again is more important than preserving the reputation of any institution. I’d expect any person with any morals to speak of to do the same. > [@Tony](#): > > It was only a “few Jews” who killed Jesus Christ, which led to the Catholic Church’s persecution of the entire population in the first place. The Church finally apologized about a million years later so they have every right, I guess, to use the victim defense. We also got accused, particularly around this time of year, of killing Christians and using their blood in either our wine or matzo. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/17 "2010-04-02T20:04:59Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > If all that had happened was that some priests molested some kids, that might work as an analogy. But that’s not all that happened. What happened is that some people in the Church hierarchy showed that they care more about the reputation of the Church than they do about punishing someone who molested children. Right, but he’s saying only that some people in the Church hierarchy did that, but that the entire Catholic hierarchy and Catholic church is being blamed. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/18 "2010-04-02T20:05:46Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > … What happened is that some people in the Church hierarchy showed that they care more about the reputation of the Church than they do about punishing someone who molested children. > > If I knew that my congregation’s rabbi was molesting kids (which he isn’t, but just as a hypothetical example), I’d turn him in to the police. I would do that even though I know it would damage the reputation of Judaism and of my congregation. Stopping a child molester from offending again is more important than preserving the reputation of any institution. I’d expect any person with any morals to speak of to do the same. … I would do the same. I’d have the cops on the phone so fast, well you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/19 "2010-04-02T20:14:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, but he’s saying only that some people in the Church hierarchy did that, but that the entire Catholic hierarchy and Catholic church is being blamed. That excuse doesn’t wash. If there was an ongoing chronic widespread problem (and there was) and it was not dealt with and corrected, then the blame does belong to the organization or the institution. If the institution forbade anyone from making it public and going to the cops (which is what happened), then the institution is wrong. I don’t care if it was 10 people or 10,000 people doing it, the fact remains that church reputation and church secrecy were more important. That is just wrong. It is criminal. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756/20 "2010-04-02T20:14:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Right, but he’s saying only that some people in the Church hierarchy did that, but that the entire Catholic hierarchy and Catholic church is being blamed. “Only some people” at the highest levels. If a friend of mine got busted for molesting some kids, and I made the excuse “Yeah, but he volunteers at the soup kitchen”, I’d consider you to be in the right to find me, if not complicit, at least an asshole. It’s almost like the church leadership is trying to pull some Andy Kaufman-type performance piece with this shit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hmm-probably-not-the-smartest-idea-popes-preacher-compares-abuse-row-to-anti-semitism/534756.md?page=2)