# HOA fighting a chainlink fence!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066 "2011-04-28T18:38:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/61 "2011-05-01T18:57:18Z")
I’ll post a good HOA story to help balance things. When our HOA is running a little bit of a positive balance on the books, we bring in a DJ and a couple of kegs to the pool deck… It could be worse. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/62 "2011-05-01T20:18:06Z")
I went on a pet sitting visit at a townhouse community with an HOA not too long ago. I parked my old, oil-leaking car on the street, because I didn’t want to drip oil on the driveway. I was inside about 20 minutes. When I came out, there was a big PARKING VIOLATION sticker on my window. There was no contact information, nothing. And they had to open my car door to roll the window down, because I didn’t see it until I got back inside and started rolling the window up. Obnoxious AND sneaky. And there were other cars down the street that were parked kinda like I was. Since I was inside such a short time, there was some officious HOA person watching for stuff like this so they could pounce on me. Grrr. I hate HOAs. ---
**Author:** ![Sally\_Mander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@Sally\_Mander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sally_Mander)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/63 "2011-05-01T21:48:34Z")
> [@Archergal](#): > > I went on a pet sitting visit at a townhouse community with an HOA not too long ago. I parked my old, oil-leaking car on the street, because I didn’t want to drip oil on the driveway. > > I was inside about 20 minutes. When I came out, there was a big PARKING VIOLATION sticker on my window. There was no contact information, nothing. And they had to open my car door to roll the window down, because I didn’t see it until I got back inside and started rolling the window up. What was the violation, parking in the street? Was it an actual ticket, or just a notice that you violated their precious ordinances? ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/64 "2011-05-01T22:20:17Z")
> [@YoSaffBridge](#): > > What was the violation, parking in the street? Was it an actual ticket, or just a notice that you violated their precious ordinances? Oh no, not a real ticket, just a big orange notice on my driver side window that said PARKING VIOLATION. No person to contact, just the intent to infuriate and annoy and be self-righteous, I guess. It was one of those stickers you can’t peel off. I had to scrape it off with a razor blade. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/65 "2011-05-01T23:41:34Z")
HOAs apparently have something in common with school boards. People who on an individual basis are decent enough, have a tendency to turn into officious jackasses when placed in a position where they can wield petty power. I’ve seen it happen with school boards in various places I’ve lived - fortunately, not having lived in a neighborhood with an HOA I’ve never had the displeasure to experience one of those in action. I did get a notice of Violation some years back from our local township government when I had the audacity to put up a board fence without getting a permit (which I didn’t realize I needed). There _are_ various community no-nos that’ll attract official attention even in those benighted neighborhoods that don’t appreciate HOAs. I just don’t see the pressing need to add a layer of amateur snooping busybodies on top of that. By the way, parking an RV so that it protrudes into the street is probably a municipal violation that’ll get it ticketed or towed in most jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/66 "2011-05-02T00:53:00Z")
Here’s what I suggest, because without the specifics of the contract, none of us are going be be able to say whether a chain link fence would be covered or not. Your neighbor should talk to the HOA in an attempt to find out whether there is some other kind of fence or barrier that they wouldn’t object to. Can I assume chain link fence was the choice because it is cheapest? So presumably an HOA approved solution would be pricier. But would that be true if you neighbor adds the cost of hiring a lawyer on top of the fence? The best solution is to find the most affordable mutually agreed solution, not to find out whether your neighbor can tell the HOA to fuck itself and dare it to sue. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/67 "2011-05-02T02:23:27Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > You must live in the South Central area of the country where all the hillbilly’s are moving away from: > > [http://www.fhfa.gov/webfiles/21155/HPI42111.pdf](http://www.fhfa.gov/webfiles/21155/HPI42111.pdf) I do, but what I meant was that our relative property values aren’t being destroyed by virtue of not having a HOA. Our neighborhood is interesting- it’s a mix of elderly people and people in their 60’s, and then a large number of relatively affluent people in their 30s who are moving in as the old timers move or die. Since the property values haven’t declined, it serves as an anti-hillbilly filter of sorts- the cheapest homes in our neighborhood are about 200k, and generally speaking, the truck in the yard / toilet planter crowd are more likely to go live in Mesquite or Garland rather than move into Dallas proper to spend that sort of cash to live in a nice neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/68 "2011-05-02T03:27:23Z")
The problem is not dictatorial fascist assholes; the problem is that the HOA allows someone to execise this power. In Canada, a municipality must wield this power, and is answerable to the courts and civil rights and the right to enjoy your property. In the USA, HOA’s have exempted themselves from this recourse. And as came up in a different thread, an incredible number of what should be private houses are in fact covered by HOA’s; often, as I understand, so that the municipality does not have to take responsibility for maintaining the neighbourhood. So what happens when these HOA neighbourhoods get old and the residents have to deal with potholes and repaving an entire neighbourhood? Geez, it’s horrible enough to hear the whining when a condo association has to re-roof the apartment building. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/69 "2011-05-02T10:35:53Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The problem is not dictatorial fascist assholes; the problem is that the HOA allows someone to execise this power. In Canada, a municipality must wield this power, and is answerable to the courts and civil rights and the right to enjoy your property. In the USA, HOA’s have exempted themselves from this recourse. Cite? HOAs are answerable to courts and civil rights, as is basically everything in this country. Your assertions are baseless. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/70 "2011-05-02T13:56:03Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Cite? > > HOAs are answerable to courts and civil rights, as is basically everything in this country. Your assertions are baseless. No. There are levels of unreasonable intrusions into your personal life that governments are not allowed to do. HOA’s are allowed because “you accepted the contract when you bought the house”. Any rules are exempt from court challnge. You are right, the basic ADA and civil rights laws (and FCC antenna laws) are the only situations where HOA’s rights are trumped. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/71 "2011-05-02T14:14:47Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > No. There are levels of unreasonable intrusions into your personal life that governments are not allowed to do. HOA’s are allowed because “you accepted the contract when you bought the house”. Any rules are exempt from court challnge… Ridiculous. They are subject to the same court challenges as any other contract. Some rights you can sign away, others you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/72 "2011-05-02T14:18:29Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > No. There are levels of unreasonable intrusions into your personal life that governments are not allowed to do. HOA’s are allowed because “you accepted the contract when you bought the house”. Any rules are exempt from court challnge. > > You are right, the basic ADA and civil rights laws (and FCC antenna laws) are the only situations where HOA’s rights are trumped. The rules are also subject to court challenge, just like any other contract. Of course, if the contract is valid, you’ll lose. But if the rule is invalid for one reason or another, you’ll win. The contract is no way exempt from court challenge. eta: I see **Boyo** beat me to it. Oh well, it probably bears repeating. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/73 "2011-05-02T14:20:54Z")
That would be me. 😃 > [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > HOAs are answerable to courts and civil rights, as is basically everything in this country. Your assertions are baseless. This is an interesting observation, which some people may not realize works both ways. Let me relate a little story of my own… After moving into our current residence I no longer had a good place to store my car trailer and was keeping it in the driveway until finishing a carport I planned on building in the back. It took the HOA about 2 months to get around to reminding me that trailers of any kind were not permitted to remain visibly stored in front of the houses. I was admittedly in clear violation of this rule I was also completely aware of. So I called the local fascist asshole who is by all accounts and as far as I could tell a very nice lady. I informed her of my plans for the trailer and asked how long I could reasonably be given to complete the construction, to which she replied it was already too late, that’s why I found the nasty-gram on my door. The trailer needed to be moved ASAP. So I said OK, thanks, I’ll get right on it. I finished the carport about three years later. I don’t know how it works in other places, but here, in order to enforce any punitive or monetary penalty they must get a court judgement against you. Going to that extent is a real pain in the ass for everyone involved. I believed that under the circumstances I would bluff them into it, just to be a prick because of the way I perceived I was being treated. Every August for the next three years following my first and only ever phone call to the HOA lady I received a new nasty-gram notice about my trailer taped to the door, which I promptly deposited in the trash, almost looking forward to seeing her in court if that’s what see really wanted to do. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/74 "2011-05-02T14:28:23Z")
I don’t understand the point of your story. I’m pretty sure everyone understands that an HOA would have to go to court to enforce their contract. Some will just bluff because they don’t want the hassle. My sister’s HOA, which has very stringent rules, does no enforcement at all that she or her neighbors are aware of. Others will file papers of the first day past whatever deadline they give you. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/75 "2011-05-02T14:33:32Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > That would be me. 😃 > > This is an interesting observation, which some people may not realize works both ways. Let me relate a little story of my own… > > After moving into our current residence I no longer had a good place to store my car trailer and was keeping it in the driveway until finishing a carport I planned on building in the back. It took the HOA about 2 months to get around to reminding me that trailers of any kind were not permitted to remain visibly stored in front of the houses. I was admittedly in clear violation of this rule I was also completely aware of. > > So I called the local fascist asshole who is by all accounts and as far as I could tell a very nice lady. I informed her of my plans for the trailer and asked how long I could reasonably be given to complete the construction, to which she replied it was already too late, that’s why I found the nasty-gram on my door. The trailer needed to be moved ASAP. So I said OK, thanks, I’ll get right on it. > > I finished the carport about three years later. I don’t know how it works in other places, but here, in order to enforce any punitive or monetary penalty they must get a court judgement against you. Going to that extent is a real pain in the ass for everyone involved. I believed that under the circumstances I would bluff them into it, just to be a prick because of the way I perceived I was being treated. Every August for the next three years following my first and only ever phone call to the HOA lady I received a new nasty-gram notice about my trailer taped to the door, which I promptly deposited in the trash, almost looking forward to seeing her in court if that’s what see really wanted to do. 😉 Actually in many HOA contracts, the HOA could have had your trailer towed, and billed you for the costs. If you failed to pay, they could then assess a lien against your property. When you try and sell the property the lien would need to be satisfied before you could close. This is the most common enforcement mechanism. The HOA pays someone else to correct the violation (mowing, fence in disrepair, painting your house, etc. ), then bill you for the privelege. They don’t need to go to court. It would then be up to the homeowner to go to to court to fight it. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/76 "2011-05-02T14:34:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Some will just bluff because they don’t want the hassle. The point of my story is there’s assholes on both sides of this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/77 "2011-05-02T14:38:01Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Actually in many HOA contracts, the HOA could have had your trailer towed, and billed you for the costs. …This is the most common enforcement mechanism. That would suck. I would never live where an HOA had that kind of power. My sympathies to those who do. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/78 "2011-05-02T14:51:43Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > That would suck. I would never live where an HOA had that kind of power. My sympathies to those who do. :mad: It sounds to me that you DO live in such a place, but the HOA management isn’t energetic enough to enforce their contract. But I could be wrong. Maybe they have rules, but no penalties for not following them, which would mean they were pretty stupidly advised when they were incorporated. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/79 "2011-05-02T14:56:21Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Actually in many HOA contracts, the HOA could have had your trailer towed, and billed you for the costs. If you failed to pay, they could then assess a lien against your property. When you try and sell the property the lien would need to be satisfied before you could close. > > This is the most common enforcement mechanism. The HOA pays someone else to correct the violation (mowing, fence in disrepair, painting your house, etc. ), then bill you for the privelege. They don’t need to go to court. It would then be up to the homeowner to go to to court to fight it. Absolutely true, but still not exempt from courts - you could, for example, get a TRO to prevent the filing of the lean without paying the costs of the tow if you thought the tow was in violation of the contract (and could meet the court’s standards). You could then proceed to a case on the merits. Of course, if you actually violated the contract, you would probably lose. eta: not claiming that you, **Omar** , were asserting that it was, just putting it in the context of the broader conversation. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066/80 "2011-05-02T15:34:02Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > That would suck. I would never live where an HOA had that kind of power. My sympathies to those who do. :mad: Note that municipalities can work this way too. If the sidewalk in front of your home is in disrepair, in some cities they’ll come out to fix it and then bill you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoa-fighting-a-chainlink-fence/580066.md?page=5)