# Hoagie, grinder, Sub, Hero, Po'boy... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664 "2014-07-08T20:10:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/41 "2014-07-14T00:06:57Z")
What’s the difference between a steak sandwich and a cheesesteak? Just the absence of cheese? ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/42 "2014-07-14T00:19:21Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > **Po’boy** —made with freshly cooked food that’s almost stew-like, like shrimps in a spicy sauce with onions and bell peppers—a good amount of the center of the bread has to be dug out in order to make a space for the stew to fit. I’ve never seen a Po’boy in a restaurant here in Alabama that wasn’t fried seafood (catfish, shrimp, oysters) and lettuce and tomato. What you’re describing sounds like someone poured gumbo on a roll. ---
**Author:** ![WPA-Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WPA-Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WPA-Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/43 "2014-07-14T01:31:44Z")
I’ve lived in PA all of my life, equal time in Pittsburgh, Philly, and in the sticks. These sandwiches originated with the millworkers wanting a big, hearty sandwich they could eat during their lunch break. The hoagie got it’s name as the nickname of the sandwich that the Hog Island (Philly) workers would eat. There is a distinction between the sandwiches, though. A proper hoagie is made from italian lunch meats like capicola, salami, genoa, pepperoni, ham, etc. or roast beef, with provolone cheese and lettuce, tomato, onions, broccoli raab, italian marinated peppers, and oil and vinegar, dusted with oregano on a hard torpedo shaped roll. No mayo, no yellow cheese, no boloney. Submarine sandwiches can have any lunch meats, any cheeses, any condiments, on any quality rolls. Grinders are subs that have been heated. [http://www.hollyeats.com/Sarcones.htm](http://www.hollyeats.com/Sarcones.htm) Here is where a proper hoagie is made. For the best sub, Bob’s Sub in Slippery Rock or Clarion can’t be beat. There are no Po’boys here, and Heroes are available in Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/44 "2014-07-14T01:36:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What’s the difference between a steak sandwich and a cheesesteak? Just the absence of cheese? Steak sandwiches come in all kinds of types. Around here, a steak sandwich is usually not chopped steak, but rather a thin cut of steak on a roll. A “cheesesteak,” I think of Philadelphia style, where the steak is chopped. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/45 "2014-07-14T02:51:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Steak sandwiches come in all kinds of types. Around here, a steak sandwich is usually not chopped steak, but rather a thin cut of steak on a roll. Ah, so what I would consider a “hoagie.” ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/46 "2014-07-14T03:29:52Z")
I grew up in MD and was familiar with all these terms but mostly just used “subs.” Typically, you got a cold cut or cheese steak sub. Most gas stations, convenience stores, and local family restaurants/pizza places/lunch spots sold them. The first time I came across the oddity known as Subway was around 1993 in California. I still remember the strange looks and confusion I got when I tried to order a regular sub. I never figured that place (or similar chains) out. I remember “hoagie” from the Cosby Show. Claire always wanted Heathcliff to go on a diet and he would sneak hoagies. I remember some restaurant or fast food chain that sold something called a “Po Boy.” When i was around 12, a sub place called “Philly grinders” opened at the mall food court. “Hero” was recognizable from books/songs/pop culture. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/47 "2014-07-14T03:58:34Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It still is, everywhere. “Subway” refers to a particular restaurant chain. It’s named after the New York subway. No evidence that it was named after the subway, Quite to the contrary, it was first “Pete’s Super Submarines” in 1965 Bridgeport CT. and changed to “Subway” in 1968. Had nothing to do with the NY subway. > [@WPA-Guy](#): > > I’ve lived in PA all of my life, equal time in Pittsburgh, Philly, and in the sticks. These sandwiches originated with the millworkers wanting a big, hearty sandwich they could eat during their lunch break. The hoagie got it’s name as the nickname of the sandwich that the Hog Island (Philly) workers would eat. Hog-wash. The Hog Island story didn’t happen. Urban Legend. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/48 "2014-07-14T04:16:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Ah, so what I would consider a “hoagie.” Maybe. I’m not sure, but judging by your definition of “hoagie,” it doesn’t seem so. It’s actual grilled- or griddled-up steak around here. There are many variations. The hot dog joint down the street takes a thin cut of steak (thin by steak standards, so somewhere around 1/2 inch thick–I think it’s either flank or sirloin or maybe a thinly cut ribeye. I can’t remember as it’s been ages since I’ve had it) throws it on the griddle, and then puts it on an Italian beef roll with your desired toppings. Other places chop it up, although my hot dog stand calls that a “chopped steak sandwich.” There are also breaded steak sandwiches, where the steak is breaded and fried, kind of like a chicken-fried steak, and served on an Italian roll with marinara and mozzarella. It’s a very general term. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/49 "2014-07-14T04:21:54Z")
ETA: There’s also lots of ethnic variations, like the jibarito, steak milanesa, etc., that all fall under the “steak sandwich” umbrella. For example, [see here](http://chicago.seriouseats.com/2012/08/best-steak-sandwiches-chicago.html). It’s wise not to assume anything specific with the term “steak sandwich” other than it’s going to be a sandwich containing steak in some form. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/50 "2014-07-14T04:36:12Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > No evidence that it was named after the subway, . Except all the maps of the NY Subway routes covering the wallpaper and the dozens of vintage pictures of NY Subway trains and tunnels decorating every location. No, no evidence at all. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/51 "2014-07-14T04:54:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Except all the maps of the NY Subway routes covering the wallpaper and the dozens of vintage pictures of NY Subway trains and tunnels decorating every location. No, no evidence at all. Well, that could have been an after-the-fact marketing/branding thing. The NYC Subway theme doesn’t seem to have been introduced [until 1980](http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/about_us/TimeLine.aspx). ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/52 "2014-07-14T13:17:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, that could have been an after-the-fact marketing/branding thing. The NYC Subway theme doesn’t seem to have been introduced [until 1980](http://www.subway.com/subwayroot/about_us/TimeLine.aspx). A similar thing happened with the Popeye’s fried chicken fast food. They claimed they named the place after the Popeye Doyle character from the French Connection film, but then later got rights to use the Popeye cartoon character in marketing. ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/53 "2014-07-14T13:26:57Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > A similar thing happened with the Popeye’s fried chicken fast food. They claimed they named the place after the Popeye Doyle character from the French Connection film, but then later got rights to use the Popeye cartoon character in marketing. I can’t remember much of the French Connection except for a big car chase. Was Popeye Doyle known for cooking spicy chicken, biscuits, and red beans & rice? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/54 "2014-07-14T13:48:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Except all the maps of the NY Subway routes covering the wallpaper and the dozens of vintage pictures of NY Subway trains and tunnels decorating every location. No, no evidence at all. Yeah, what else coukd the name “Subway” possibly be referencing? ---
**Author:** ![MacLir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@MacLir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacLir)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/55 "2014-07-14T15:16:16Z")
One rather local variant that hasn’t been mentioned is the Cuban Sandwich. Center of the “culture” in the US is Tampa, Florida. Purists are as vocal about what is in one as the Philadelphia folks are about cheesesteak sandwiches, and there was, and presumably still is, a yearly competition for the title of “Best”. Fillings are essentially cold cuts and cheese, in a standard mix with minor variations, but it has to be on Cuban bread, which is like a baguette, but has its own particular character. No lettuce, but onion and such, and condiments. Then the whole assembly is toasted in a sandwich press and served hot. Not typically spicy in itself, but the table will have hot sauce if you are that way inclined. 🆒 It also has a “cousin”, the _medianoche_, which is on a different bread, and was popular as a late-night meal, hence the name. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/56 "2014-07-14T16:23:34Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Yeah, what else coukd the name “Subway” possibly be referencing? Well, yeah. “Subway” the regular word really has only one meaning in the U.S. — an underground rail transport system. What else could they have been thinking if when they dropped “Pete’s Super Submarines” in favor of “Subway”? What else did they expect the general public to think of when they saw that name? Even the first “Subway” logo with the arrows at the end evokes the notion of a route map. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/57 "2014-07-14T17:33:53Z")
> [@MacLir](#): > > One rather local variant that hasn’t been mentioned is the Cuban Sandwich. Center of the “culture” in the US is Tampa, Florida. > > Purists are as vocal about what is in one as the Philadelphia folks are about cheesesteak sandwiches, and there was, and presumably still is, a yearly competition for the title of “Best”. > > Fillings are essentially cold cuts and cheese, in a standard mix with minor variations, but it has to be on Cuban bread, which is like a baguette, but has its own particular character. No lettuce, but onion and such, and condiments. Then the whole assembly is toasted in a sandwich press and served hot. > > Not typically spicy in itself, but the table will have hot sauce if you are that way inclined. 🆒 Oh yeah, the Cuban sandwiches in Tampa are great! I haven’t had one in years and now I really want one. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/58 "2014-07-14T18:41:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > They do now, but they used to be famous for their peculiar wedge-shaped cut. Are they not doing that peculiar wedge-shaped cut any more? It’s been a few years since I at at Subway. (Mid-to-northern California area here.) ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/59 "2014-07-14T18:48:32Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Are they not doing that peculiar wedge-shaped cut any more? It’s been a few years since I at at Subway. (Mid-to-northern California area here.) They stopped that a while back. Maybe a decade ago? I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664/60 "2014-07-14T18:55:08Z")
I’d only run into ‘grinder’ in New England. I’d always assumed that ‘hoagie’ was a shorthand for ‘hot oven grinder’ though I’ve never lived anywhere that ‘hoagie’ is a thing, so I don’t even know for sure that it’s a hot sub rather than a cold cut sub. > [@MacLir](#): > > One rather local variant that hasn’t been mentioned is the Cuban Sandwich. Center of the “culture” in the US is Tampa, Florida. Yeppers. When we visit the in-laws in central FL, my wife and I try to time our flights to Tampa so that our favorite Cuban bakery (La Segunda) in Ybor City still has the deli counter open when we get there so we can grab some Cubans on the way in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoagie-grinder-sub-hero-poboy/692664.md?page=4)