# 'Hoarders' 10/8/2012 - It Has Happened **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 10, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276 "2012-10-10T02:34:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/21 "2012-10-12T12:03:32Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Is this hyperbole or did she have some sort of childhood illness or smelting accident? A brief Google turned up nothing (and this thread was hit #2). My cousin has full blown [anosmia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anosmia), I have a pretty poor sense of smell myself, no known reason, although both my parents used to smoke heavily in the house when I was a child, and I had a permanently snotty nose till I was about 14 years old. Maybe the scent area of my brain atrophied from lack of use? Whatever the reason something has to be completely rank and right under my nose before I realise it stinks. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/22 "2012-10-12T14:19:12Z")
I will admit, there were moments during this episode when I thought, “They just shouldn’t have put this on TV.” I can’t remember ever being that grossed out by a TV show — and I watch both Hoarders and Hoarding: Buried Alive every week. I was watching a lot this ep through my fingers. > [@](#): > > Is it me, or does this season seem a bit more “feel good” with the introduction of attempting to stay the night in the hoards by Matt and Cory - which have yet to be successful - and somehow the mid-cleanup meltdowns haven’t seemed so awful. I don’t know if I’d describe it as “feel-good” so much as “gimmicky.” The idea that Paxton or Chalmers can learn anything useful by sleeping in a house swarming with vermin is absurd; it’s just to add a bit of sensationalism (as if this show needs any). What I do find interesting is that the “surprise” room renovations and gifts at the end, which used to be occasional, now seem to be a part of every case. That does seem to be more of a feel-good, Oprah-like gesture to help each episode end on a high note. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/23 "2012-10-12T14:41:42Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > I don’t know if I’d describe it as “feel-good” so much as “gimmicky.” The idea that Paxton or Chalmers can learn anything useful by sleeping in a house swarming with vermin is absurd; it’s just to add a bit of sensationalism (as if this show needs any). Amen. My wife and I hate this aspect of the new season. I hope it goes away after this year. It just makes a real situation feel a lot more “reality show” like. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/24 "2012-10-12T17:11:20Z")
I have a thing about poop, hate it, cant’ stand it. I’m glad some of this episode was filmed in black and white and blurred ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/25 "2012-10-12T18:35:41Z")
Well, they were trying for that _Paranormal Activity_ vibe, showing you the ghosts of poos past. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/26 "2012-10-12T18:54:22Z")
OMG, she wants to eat poop one last time? A “blaze of glory”?? Fuuuuuuckk… I think this was the first episode I’ve seen where the doctor recommends and gets the person into assisted living. Wow, unbelievable ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/27 "2012-10-12T19:44:15Z")
Well, I didn’t vomit. But that was the most disturbing episode ever. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/28 "2012-10-13T00:53:44Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > They do. The show provides up to six months of aftercare funds so that the hoarders can seek professional counseling with no financial obligation. Many of the hoarders refuse the offer of further help, however. There are two problems to the _Hoarders_ approach. First, in cases where the hoarding is due to brain dysfunction (advanced age, dementia (it shows up in several types of senility), head injury, etc.) it’s debatable whether or not therapy would help in any case due to there being something wrong with the brain machinery. Second, cleaning house, especially against the hoarder’s consent, THEN offering therapy, is arguably the _worst_ possible approach and a reason that the “cure” doesn’t stick. It’s not rational to normal people but the reason these people hoard is an _unusual attachment to their stuff_. Not only do they perceive these cleanings as theft, but it causes more emotional upset/trauma than when an ordinary person is a victim of theft due to their pathologically strong attachments. Hoarders often view an involuntary cleaning as a violation, invasion, theft, etc. That totally destroys any trust between the hoarder and the cleaners, and makes it virtually certain that the hoarder will accept no further help from those people. Hence, the aftercare therapy goes unclaimed. My research on hoarding is that treatment is much more effective if therapy is given FIRST, _then_ the cleaning is done after the hoarder buys into the necessity. Of course, that takes time, is frustrating, doesn’t always work (in some cases involving organic damage it can’t work) and isn’t as sexy as swooping in to clean the [Augean Stables.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augean_stables) Really, it would be more beneficial to the hoarders to get six month of PRE-cleaning therapy but then this is about ratings and money, not actually helping the hoarders. ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/29 "2012-10-13T02:19:08Z")
Well thanks to you guys and my morbid curiosity I just finished watching that episode - all the while thinking “What is this…I don’t even…” They never answered WHY on earth those women kept bottles of their own pee & shit…what, do they look on them with nostalgia? “Ahh, yes, this was the time I had Taco Bell…” WHAT THE HELL MAN, why? Just…why?? Thank God Shanna was recommended for assisted living because she is obviously very mentally ill. I pray her cats got loving, clean homes - even cats bury their own crap, unlike Shanna who throws it on the lawn. WTF. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/30 "2012-10-13T03:25:04Z")
I wonder if the acute health risks in some of these cases (particularly the poop and sewage people) make a lengthier course of pre-cleanup treatment impossible. Is it ethical to leave a mentally ill person in that kind of severely toxic environment without some kind of immediate cleaning, even if that ultimately complicates the course of therapy? Also, I think that in some of these cases, I think there are external deadlines looming, from the landlord or the locality. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/31 "2012-10-13T04:10:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There are two problems to the _Hoarders_ approach. > > Second, cleaning house, especially against the hoarder’s consent, THEN offering therapy, is arguably the _worst_ possible approach and a reason that the “cure” doesn’t stick. It’s not rational to normal people but the reason these people hoard is an _unusual attachment to their stuff_. Not only do they perceive these cleanings as theft, but it causes more emotional upset/trauma than when an ordinary person is a victim of theft due to their pathologically strong attachments. . they don’t clean anything without the hoarder’s consent. They usually remove objects to an outside location while filth is cleaned, then the therapist and hoarder begin the process of surrendering and sorting individual items. Then they will work up to categories of items, or giving authority to a trusted friend. This usually takes a long time and makes any family/helpers super frustrated. The therapist has sent family/friends off set if she felt they were undermining the process by throwing things away secretly. I’m not saying the show’s a panacaea (or even doing any good), but I don’t think you’re characterizing it accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/32 "2012-10-13T04:16:52Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > They never answered WHY on earth those women kept bottles of their own pee & shit…what, do they look on them with nostalgia? It’s an indication (outside of situations where a person is physically unable to dispose of bodily wastes properly) that the hoarding is due to senility or some sort of brain dysfunction, actually. It’s not known _why_ these people hoard piss and shit, but in addition they also may hoard nail clippings, hair, etc. If seen in combination with advanced age the possibility of dementia needs to be investigated. > [@](#): > > Thank God Shanna was recommended for assisted living because she is obviously very mentally ill. I haven’t looked at the episode in question, but if Shanna is at an advanced age it may not be so much “mental illness” as “the brain isn’t working right anymore”. Regrettably, there is not much to be done in such cases other than a supervised living situation, which from this thread it sounds like she was placed in such a facility. > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I wonder if the acute health risks in some of these cases (particularly the poop and sewage people) make a lengthier course of pre-cleanup treatment impossible. Is it ethical to leave a mentally ill person in that kind of severely toxic environment without some kind of immediate cleaning, even if that ultimately complicates the course of therapy? Yes, sometimes immediate health risks make delaying for counseling impossible, or at least not advisable. > [@](#): > > Also, I think that in some of these cases, I think there are external deadlines looming, from the landlord or the locality. Also likely. Municipalities make rules about squalor to protect the public health and property values, not to make hoarders comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/33 "2012-10-13T04:20:22Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > they don’t clean anything without the hoarder’s consent. They usually remove objects to an outside location while filth is cleaned, then the therapist and hoarder begin the process of surrendering and sorting individual items. Then they will work up to categories of items, or giving authority to a trusted friend. This usually takes a long time and makes any family/helpers super frustrated. The therapist has sent family/friends off set if she felt they were undermining the process by throwing things away secretly. > > I’m not saying the show’s a panacaea (or even doing any good), but I don’t think you’re characterizing it accurately. Well, as I don’t have cable or satellite my opportunities to actually watch it are pretty infrequent. I am going basically on what others tell me, which admittedly is not a complete picture. If the therapist prevents “helpful” associates from taking matters into their own hands in a way that sabotages actual progress that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/34 "2012-10-13T15:47:12Z")
Shanna wasn’t anywhere near elderly though…there’s definitely something else wrong with her. It also didn’t appear that her hoard consisted of actual “stuff”…just the poo bottles, assorted poo collection vessels (there were several buckets outside that she stated were in case she couldn’t make it inside in time), and a sizable amount of decaying/contaminated food. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/35 "2012-10-13T16:56:42Z")
Brain damage can occur at any age from a variety of reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/36 "2012-10-13T20:16:09Z")
It made me cry. I felt so bad for Shanna because she clearly has a mental illness but the people that are closest to her just saw her as lazy. They were aware of the situation for YEARS and just let her decline. How can you let a sibling fall so far? How could you just give up knowing your sister is hoarding bottles of her own excrement and then just pretend she was just too lazy? The other one I called as an excuse the minute she made the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/37 "2012-10-13T22:33:32Z")
In the [news](http://gantdaily.com/2012/09/10/woman-contracts-hantavirus-after-cleaning-texas-hoarders-home-tlc-crew-exposed/): Someone who helped clean up one of the houses due to be featured on “Hoarding: Buried Alive” developed hantavirus. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/38 "2012-10-13T22:34:14Z")
Seems to me that Shanna wasn’t a hoarder so much as a clutterer. She didn’t seem that fazed when they were literally throwing her shit away. She only had that one outburst regarding the food, but I think in that case she was just expressing anger at herself and the world. Here everyone was saying (in her mind) how disgusting she was and I think she wanted to show them it didn’t matter to her WHAT they thought. I don’t think she cared about eating the food. I think she wanted to show those people how meaningless their concern was to her. About her family, I didn’t seem them being insulting as much as being helpless. Especially that one brother. I think they all knew that the girl is severely mentally ill, but didn’t know what to do about it. Just as she was in denial about the poop, I think they were in denial about how bad things were. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/39 "2012-10-14T00:10:32Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > It made me cry. I felt so bad for Shanna because she clearly has a mental illness but the people that are closest to her just saw her as lazy. They were aware of the situation for YEARS and just let her decline. How can you let a sibling fall so far? How could you just give up knowing your sister is hoarding bottles of her own excrement and then just pretend she was just too lazy? > > The other one I called as an excuse the minute she made the claim. There is only so much abuse you can take from a mentally ill family member before you just don’t care any more. (I almost wrote ‘just don’t give a shit’ any more, but that seemed inappropriate. :D) You get told by authorities over and over that they cannot intervene because the person isn’t a danger to anyone, and eventually you just pull away because you can’t help and the family member won’t let you help in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276/40 "2012-10-14T03:54:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There are two problems to the _Hoarders_ approach. > > First, in cases where the hoarding is due to brain dysfunction (advanced age, dementia (it shows up in several types of senility), head injury, etc.) it’s debatable whether or not therapy would help in any case due to there being something wrong with the brain machinery. > > Second, cleaning house, especially against the hoarder’s consent, THEN offering therapy, is arguably the _worst_ possible approach and a reason that the “cure” doesn’t stick. It’s not rational to normal people but the reason these people hoard is an _unusual attachment to their stuff_. Not only do they perceive these cleanings as theft, but it causes more emotional upset/trauma than when an ordinary person is a victim of theft due to their pathologically strong attachments. Hoarders often view an involuntary cleaning as a violation, invasion, theft, etc. That totally destroys any trust between the hoarder and the cleaners, and makes it virtually certain that the hoarder will accept no further help from those people. Hence, the aftercare therapy goes unclaimed. > > My research on hoarding is that treatment is much more effective if therapy is given FIRST, _then_ the cleaning is done after the hoarder buys into the necessity. Of course, that takes time, is frustrating, doesn’t always work (in some cases involving organic damage it can’t work) and isn’t as sexy as swooping in to clean the [Augean Stables.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augean_stables) Really, it would be more beneficial to the hoarders to get six month of PRE-cleaning therapy but then this is about ratings and money, not actually helping the hoarders. Seems to me more a case of “hoarder finds he/she has tight deadline before loss of home or jail time ensues, cleaning is on emergency crisis basis without the luxury of months of pre-care because hoarder _just would not_ deal with situation until it hit emergency status”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarders-10-8-2012-it-has-happened/637276.md?page=3)