# Hoarding and untidiness in teenage rooms. Are they modern illnesses **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976 "2019-06-24T17:23:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/1 "2019-06-24T17:23:06Z")
Lets look at Hoarding at home. Some of the TV programmes ( usually within the last decade) shows Hoarders to be mainly older folk who cannot control their untidy homes and make it even more untidy, room by room until they have access to only a few metres of the room. I am sure you have seen these programmes. So is this a modern day illness? Or was it reported in 18th century and earlier. A similar vein. Teenage rooms, including my own children in their twenties, are an incredibly terrible mess. All their clothes on the floor food and used dishes and cutlery on every inch of space. Most parents know this and live with it. Is this also a relatively modern illness? Considering that children with own rooms is a relatively modern phenomena. Have there been any studies on why teenagers are unable to see the filth around them? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/2 "2019-06-24T17:26:25Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > …Mist parents know this and live with it. Is this also a relatively modern illness? Considering that children with own rooms is a relatively modern phenomena. … Not sure what you mean by relatively modern. My kids are in their late 20s-early 30s, and most of their contemporaries had their own rooms. We did not live with what you describe. ISTR some parents talking about their kids not keeping their rooms clean. I never understood that. My kids didn’t have the choice. And they were not allowed to take food to their rooms. Each parent is relatively free to fuck up their kids how they wish! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/3 "2019-06-24T17:48:50Z")
How would you really tell? Having enough possessions to be capable of being untidy is itself a modern condition. The items you did have were used regularly. If you had sufficient possessions lying around not being used daily, you were probably also wealthy enough to have servants tidy up for you. Also, this does seems like stereotyping. Plenty of teenagers don’t live in squalor and keep tidy rooms. Then again, complaining about how “kids these days” are different from past generations has also been going on for thousands of years. ETA: when you do achieve a certain level of wealth and status, it’s not really considered ‘hoarding’ anymore. Note the extensive collections held by the nobility and royalty of Europe, much of which served no better purpose than taking up an increasing amount of space rather than being actively enjoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/4 "2019-06-24T18:13:55Z")
Well, the average teen being rich enough to accumulate lots of material goods and have a personal space to scatter them is pretty modern. For most of history, they would be living 20 to the room and own two rags and a stick. (ETA or what the post above mine said.) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/5 "2019-06-24T18:28:35Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > ETA: when you do achieve a certain level of wealth and status, it’s not really considered ‘hoarding’ anymore. Note the extensive collections held by the nobility and royalty of Europe, much of which served no better purpose than taking up an increasing amount of space rather than being actively enjoyed. Owning a large, well-curated collection is not considered hoarding. Compulsive hoarding happens when you gather or keep irrationally large amounts or types of objects to the point that it causes you distress or impairs your safety, health, or ability to live a normal life. It’s not the simple laziness of teenagers, it’s a major mental illness. If you tidy a teenager’s room, they won’t give a damn. If you try to tidy a hoarder’s house, they are likely to have a major panic attack and do their damnedest to stop you because one of these days they might need that very thing you’re trying to discard. [Signs and Symptoms of Compulsive Hoarding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding#Signs_and_symptoms) AIUI, one of the earliest well-documented cases of hoarding was [the Collyer brothers,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyer_brothers) who died amidst their hoard in 1947. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/6 "2019-06-24T18:53:33Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > AIUI, one of the earliest well-documented cases of hoarding was [the Collyer brothers,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyer_brothers) who died amidst their hoard in 1947. Whom my parents used to reference when discussing the state of my room when I was a teen in the 1960s.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/7 "2019-06-24T20:20:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Whom my parents used to reference when discussing the state of my room when I was a teen in the 1960s.😃 Mine too. I know messy rooms were a thing 60 years ago when I was a kid. I was perfectly neat, of course. 😃 I suspect there were shouts of “get these bones out of your part of the cave” quite a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/8 "2019-06-24T20:35:26Z")
OK, I found a much earlier reference to hoarding: [Dante’s Inferno.](https://www.smith.edu/insight/stories/disorder.php) > [@](#): > > Here too, I saw a nation of lost souls, > far more than were above: they strained their > chests against enormous weights, and with mad howls > rolled them at one another. Then in haste > they rolled them back, one party shouting out: > “Why do you hoard?” and the other: “Why do you waste?” > “Hoarding and squandering wasted all their light > and brought them screaming to this brawl of wraiths. > You need no words of mine to grasp their plight.” See also [Hoarding in History.](https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199937783.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199937783-e-001) Bottom line, hoarding ain’t a modern thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/9 "2019-06-24T20:41:29Z")
See also [The Evolution of Hoarding,](http://216.48.92.16/omeka2/jmccutcheon/exhibits/show/the-great-depression-and-hoard/the-evolution-of-hoarding-diso) which delves into the cultural and historical factors that feed into our perceptions of hoarding and the kinds of behaviors that compulsive hoarders engage in. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/10 "2019-06-24T20:51:16Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > A similar vein. Teenage rooms, including my own children in their twenties, are an incredibly terrible mess. All their clothes on the floor food and used dishes and cutlery on every inch of space. Most parents know this and live with it. Is this also a relatively modern illness? Considering that children with own rooms is a relatively modern phenomena. Have there been any studies on why teenagers are unable to see the filth around them? The teenager’s room as a disaster zone has been a common thing for as long as there have been teenagers with their own rooms. As has been pointed out, messiness is not “hoarding” in any useful sense of that term. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/11 "2019-06-24T22:22:15Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > Teenage rooms, including my own children in their twenties, are an incredibly terrible mess. All their clothes on the floor food and used dishes and cutlery on every inch of space. Most parents know this and live with it. Is this also a relatively modern illness? No; it’s not modern. In fact, anthropologists and evolutionary psychologists have determined that immature prefrontal cortexes inhibit not only tidiness, but also the ability to get off your lawn. In all seriousness, the kids are all right. They always have been, regardless of their elders’ moral panics. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/12 "2019-06-24T22:23:17Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Not sure what you mean by relatively modern. My kids are in their late 20s-early 30s, and most of their contemporaries had their own rooms. “Relatively modern” is well, relative and of course, also depends on socioeconomic class… My late 20 year old kids had their own rooms - but it was because I only had two of them - if I had three, two of them would have had to share. Most of my contemporaries did not have their own rooms until an older sibling or two moved out unless they were the only sibling of their gender. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/13 "2019-06-24T23:03:22Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > A similar vein. Teenage rooms, including **my own children in their twenties** , are an incredibly terrible mess. All their clothes on the floor food and used dishes and cutlery on every inch of space. Most parents know this and live with it. Is this also a relatively modern illness? Considering that children with own rooms is a relatively modern phenomena. Have there been any studies on why teenagers are unable to see the filth around them? Any adults living in your home should be under a form of rental agreement, that lays the requirements for occupying space there (i.e. the amount of rent due, conditions of cleanliness, responsibilities of shared spaces, etc.), violations of which can result in eviction. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/14 "2019-06-25T04:29:37Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The teenager’s room as a disaster zone has been a common thing for as long as there have been teenagers with their own rooms. And little kids, and tweens, and… My extended family included homes you could visit with little to no warning, others you could not. A time that we visited one of these impressed me mightily by having a collection of used toilet paper rolls living atop the washer in the bathroom; to this day I don’t know whether they bred or simply hadn’t been cleaned out in months. The only room which wasn’t a disaster area was the kitchen. I took one look around and understood perfectly well why we always met those particular cousins anywhere but at their home. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/15 "2019-06-25T05:20:40Z")
It’s just an issue of a teenager’s priorities, and possibly a lack of discipline. If it’s clean enough for them to use, then they just don’t see the point in doing any extra work. Plus teens aren’t the best long term planners, so realizing that it will eventually build up to be more of a chore they will be forced to deal with just often isn’t on the radar. And the teen brain continues well into the mid-twenties, as the whole “18 means you are an adult” is an entirely arbitrary concept not related to biology, which is why the number has been different in different eras, and even now isn’t consistent across all places for all issues. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/16 "2019-06-25T05:51:58Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Any adults living in your home should be under a form of rental agreement, that lays the requirements for occupying space there (i.e. the amount of rent due, conditions of cleanliness, responsibilities of shared spaces, etc.), violations of which can result in eviction. In my experience, people don’t become that formal unless absolutely necessary. And I don’t know anyone who suddenly changes the entire housing relationship with their kid like that at an arbitrary age. Humans don’t generally want to completely uproot a system that is currently working. They’ll tweak it first to accommodate new situations. So, for example, they have to get a job or go to college. Maybe they pay some rent. Maybe their chores increase. But nothing formal. As for the concept of eviction, most parents don’t want to consider it. And, most of the time, such talk is completely unnecessary. Most kids want to move out. No, I’ve never known anyone to go formal tenant/lessor unless the kid (or other relative) was clearly taking advantage of the relationship. Or as a sort of face saving measure if the adult kid winds up having to move back home for financial reasons. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/17 "2019-06-25T07:52:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > a collection of used toilet paper rolls living atop the washer in the bathroom Please tell me that you meant “empty” toilet paper rolls, not “used”. 🙂 We used to collect 'em when I was five or six…they’re very useful for playing with. (Play the “telephone” game, use them as binoculars to spy on adults in the next room, stack them up like pyramids, make a chain out of them by running a string through them, so you can…hmm…well, ya know, I never did figure out why my sister did that… 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/18 "2019-06-25T08:12:12Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Please tell me that you meant “empty” toilet paper rolls, not “used”. 🙂 Empty would be minus the cadaver… ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/19 "2019-06-25T08:38:02Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Empty would be minus the cadaver… mmm—a cadaver…Now _that_ would have been a good toy! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976/20 "2019-06-25T09:27:42Z")
Piling up several of them atop the washing machine might have been complicated, though. At least it was a front loader, you wouldn’t need to move the corpses out of the way any time you wanted to break up another pair of socks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoarding-and-untidiness-in-teenage-rooms-are-they-modern-illnesses/835976.md?page=2)