# HOA's exclusive street and common areas in San Francisco sold at tax auction for only 90k. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 7, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046 "2017-08-07T23:54:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/1 "2017-08-07T23:54:16Z")
D’oh! There’s a good deal of irony here. Presidio Terrace’s streets &common areas are now owned by first-generation immigrants. Getting their piece of the American Dream. 😃 This decades old blunder is inexcusable. I had the same error with my tax bill after my mortgage was paid off. The mortgage company never notified the county tax assessor’s office to send it directly to me. They sent the bill to the mortgage company as usual. I caught the error when the bill didn’t come. I knew that I had to pay my property taxes. A quick phone call to the county got my address changed and they mailed me a duplicate bill. This HOA most certainly should have noticed they weren’t writing a annual check for property taxes several decades ago. The couple wisely took their time (2 years) and got Title Insurance. The sale is irreversible now imho. Btw, is it common for gated communities HOA’s to own the streets? Is that how they get away with prohibiting public access? > **[Rich SF residents get a shock: Someone bought their street](http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Rich-SF-residents-get-a-shock-Someone-bought-11738236.php)** > > Thanks to a little-noticed auction sale, a South Bay couple are the proud owners of one... > [@](#): > > a South Bay couple are the proud owners of one of the most exclusive streets in San Francisco — and they’re looking for ways to make their purchase pay. > > Tina Lam and Michael Cheng snatched up Presidio Terrace — the block-long, private oval street lined by 35 megamillion-dollar mansions — for $90,000 and change in a city-run auction stemming from an unpaid tax bill. They outlasted several other bidders. > So imagine the residents’ surprise when San Jose residents Cheng and Lam wound up with the street, its sidewalks and every other bit of “common ground” in the private development that has been managed by the homeowners since at least 1905. That includes a string of well-coiffed garden islands, palm trees and other greenery that enhance the gated and guarded community at the end of Washington Street, just off Arguello Boulevard and down the hill from the Presidio. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/2 "2017-08-08T00:02:34Z")
Reported for merging w/ existing thread. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/3 "2017-08-08T00:03:33Z")
I had a \ marker in that quote. Somehow Tapatalk removed it after I edited. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/4 "2017-08-08T00:05:52Z")
Well shit. I looked for another post. I’ll cut and paste my relevant comment. ;( ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/5 "2017-08-08T14:05:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Btw, is it common for gated communities HOA’s to own the streets? Is that how they get away with prohibiting public access? Yes, of course. You can’t just privately gate off public property. When a housing development is built, the developer builds the roads as well as the houses, and then the roads and any necessary easements are typically transferred to the county or city. In the case of gated communities, the roads aren’t transferred to the county, but to the HOA. So they’re not ‘getting away’ with anything. The roads belong to the HOA, and they’re on the hook for fixing potholes and the like. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/6 "2017-08-08T14:15:02Z")
That couple got a damned good deal, buying the street for $90K. The residents of those 35 houses are up a creek if they’re not able to use the road. The story I read about this yesterday said the purchase included even the sidewalks. My WAG is that, despite the length of time since the sale, and despite a seeming absence of legal ground to stand on, this sale will be overturned because money talks, and the residents of this street have plenty of it. Either that or the threat of legal action will be combined with an offer to buy back the street at a price that would give the couple a modest profit, but not one big enough to encourage others to look for similar deals. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/7 "2017-08-08T15:23:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > That couple got a damned good deal, buying the street for $90K. The residents of those 35 houses are up a creek if they’re not able to use the road. The story I read about this yesterday said the purchase included even the sidewalks. For the houses where the only access is by the private street in question, I would imagine they have a [right of way by necessity](https://www.google.com/search?q=right+of+way+by+necessity&rlz=1C1FLDB_enUS513US513&oq=right+of+way+by+&aqs=chrome.3.0j69i57j0l4.6739j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8).\* Which is consistent with the new owners of the street talking about charging the residents to park; the right to cross another’s land to get to a public way is not the right to park on another’s land. \*[Link](http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/102/796.html) to a California appellate case describing the elements of an easement of way by necessity under California law. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/8 "2017-08-08T15:37:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The residents of those 35 houses are up a creek if they’re not able to use the road. Easements. Easements easements easements. Also, easements. Jesus, I’m six years old again. Thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/9 "2017-08-08T16:10:19Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > For the houses where the only access is by the private street in question, I would imagine they have a [right of way by necessity](https://www.google.com/search?q=right+of+way+by+necessity&rlz=1C1FLDB_enUS513US513&oq=right+of+way+by+&aqs=chrome.3.0j69i57j0l4.6739j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8).\* Which is consistent with the new owners of the street talking about charging the residents to park; the right to cross another’s land to get to a public way is not the right to park on another’s land. > > \*[Link](http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/102/796.html) to a California appellate case describing the elements of an easement of way by necessity under California law. > [@Derleth](#): > > Easements. > > Easements easements easements. > > Also, easements. > > Jesus, I’m six years old again. Thanks a lot. Sure. The leverage here isn’t “Mwahaha, you can’t even get to your property any more!” The leverage is “Look at the 120 parking spots that don’t belong to individual home-owners. Oh, sure, you’re used to parking your 4th car and your travel trailer out here, but no more… I’m sure commuters who work a few blocks away would be happy to pay us a modest monthly rental for those parking slots that WE, not you, own.” [Quote=SF Chronicle article] He and his wife see plenty of financial opportunity — especially from the 120 parking spaces on the street that they now control. “We could charge a reasonable rent on it,” Cheng said. And if the Presidio Terrace residents aren’t interested in paying for parking privileges, perhaps some of their neighbors outside the gates — in a city where parking is at a premium — would be. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/10 "2017-08-08T19:23:43Z")
Surely they’re subject to the HOA, which has CC&R’s governing the use of the land, right? These wouldn’t be dissolved due to the tax sale. Probably the wording suggests homeowners and lot owners pay fees, and so HOA fees might not be applied. There’s probably wording that the HOA is responsible for upkeep of the landscaping, etc., of the streets. The new owners could charge outlandish fees for landscaping services and road maintenance, because, after all, the HOA is responsible for their maintenance. On the other hand, the HOA may not have to power to raise extortionist amounts of money. On the other hand the HOA may have legal rights to access the landscaping for maintenance for the same reason that lot owners have the right to get to their homes. Maybe the CC&R’s specify that parking is allowed on the road, and so there’s no ability to monetize this. I really hope these guys lawyered up before taking a gamble. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/11 "2017-08-08T20:20:52Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Surely they’re subject to the HOA, which has CC&R’s governing the use of the land, right? These wouldn’t be dissolved due to the tax sale. Probably the wording suggests homeowners and lot owners pay fees, and so HOA fees might not be applied. There’s probably wording that the HOA is responsible for upkeep of the landscaping, etc., of the streets. That isn’t clear to me. I assume the home owners are subject to the HOA, and tax sales of any of the homes wouldn’t change that. But the street was owned directly by the HOA. Is the HOA a member of itself? Is a potentially different street owner? If the HOA says that the street that it owns should only be used in a certain way, does that really still apply once they sell (involuntarily) the street to someone else? ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/12 "2017-08-08T21:11:53Z")
Remember **Boston Legal**? This is exactly the sort of thing that would happen to the street Denny Crane lived on. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/13 "2017-11-29T23:58:35Z")
Update SF Board of Supervisors overturns sale. > **[Presidio Terrace: City overturns sale of wealthy homeowners’ street](https://sf.curbed.com/2017/11/29/16715078/presidio-terrace-sale-overturned-supervisors-rich-residents)** > > Supervisors side with rich residents despite decades of delinquent taxes. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/14 "2017-11-30T00:46:13Z")
Well the question remains if the SF Board of Supervisors has the legal authority to be able to overturn the sale–especially such a long time after the sale happened. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/15 "2017-11-30T00:58:27Z")
Seems to me that the City of San Francisco is contemplating a taking, for which the Constitution requires “just compensation.” I suspect that fair market value would be far more than $90,000. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hoas-exclusive-street-and-common-areas-in-san-francisco-sold-at-tax-auction-for-only-90k/793046/16 "2017-11-30T02:48:35Z")
Like I said when this story first broke, “Only winners will be the lawyers”. :rolleyes: