# Hobbit Movie -- I've seen it! \[open spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000 "2012-12-13T16:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/221 "2012-12-22T21:18:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Ah, so what you want is a prequel to LOTR. What I wanted was the story of Bilbo and the dwarves going to the Lonely Mountain to defeat Smaug, which, as you prolly know, is what _The Hobbit_ is about. Thank you, thank you, finally some people who see the truth. I just reread the Hobbit, and it’s perfect. Tolkien’s unique voice and gentle subtle humor reflects a real understanding of human behavior without being overly pedantic. There are hints at a few character’s thoughts, and they are just enough. The Hobbit wasn’t about battles, it was about the adventures of one hobbit and his growth and adventure seen from his point of view. It was never meant to be a “prequel” to the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien said so himself. It was a stand alone book, and would have been much better if it had been made that way, instead of advertising IN THE MOVIE how it was related to another Academy Award winning movie. This was lazy. The art design and presence of Elrond and Gandalf should have been enough for the clueless to get a clue that this was Peter Jackson’s Tolkien. Why did they have to hit people over the head with Galadriel and Co.? Radagast - don’t even get me started how undignified that was. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/222 "2012-12-22T21:28:50Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Bakshi didn’t do _The Hobbit_. And the movie he did do was a perfectly awful, seriously bad work. “Where there’s a whip, there’s a way!” Wait, that’s from Return of the King (Rankin Bass). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/223 "2012-12-22T22:15:45Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Bakshi didn’t do _The Hobbit_. And the movie he did do was a perfectly awful, seriously bad work. > > Anyway. Did you enjoy Jackson’s LOTR movies? Beg pardon, you are correct; it was Rankin/Bass that did _The Hobbit_. Yes, Bakshi’s LOTR was a mess. IIRC he had funding problems that seriously compromised his effort. As I said in my previous post, I enjoyed Jackson’s LOTR films despite the occasional liberties he took with the story. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/224 "2012-12-22T23:08:26Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Beg pardon, you are correct; it was Rankin/Bass that did _The Hobbit_. I take it you liked that one then. I did, too, although I thought the character design was …unattractive. > [@](#): > > As I said in my previous post, I enjoyed Jackson’s LOTR films despite the occasional liberties he took with the story. Ah, so you did. Please forgive my lacking reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/225 "2012-12-23T01:02:13Z")
I just got back from seeing the movie. It was surprisingly good. I dislike all of The Lord of the rings movies they are too long and boring. Even the battles aren’t great but I’m not the biggest fan of the books either I’ve read them about a half dozen times but its always a bit of a slog. On the other hand I love the hobbit I’ve read it 20 plus times and really enjoy it. I wasn’t sure if I disliked the movies because of Jackson’s style or if it was because I’m not a huge fan of the underlying story. Turns out its both. I disliked a lot of his additions to the story especially the trolls and Radagast. I’m also no a fan of the Orc chase plot. But in the I enjoyed the hobbit it was a bit long and I didn’t enjoy the battle scenes but I though riddles in the dark was perfect. I enjoyed Bilbo too all though I wish he was bitching about missing meals and home. Ill go see the next one with slightly higher expectations but they’ll have to earn me seeing #3. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/226 "2012-12-23T14:24:41Z")
I only wish this film had been a stinker. It disappoints me that the big screen version of a book that I enjoyed so much over the years leaves me with nothing so much as a feeling of “meh”. It was bland, and thats a criminal waste of the potential the story of the hobbit has. Jackson obviously learned nothing from the similarly boring King Kong. Like I say, it should be a crime that a week after seeing the film, I have next to no opinion on it whatsoever. It inspires no feeling, its just a bland, boring video game sequence played on a bigger screen. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/227 "2012-12-23T16:17:44Z")
I really liked this. To me it didn’t drag. On the contrary, when it ended, I couldn’t believe three hours had passed. I appreciated the lighter tone (I think that in itself turned a lot of people off it). This was more akin to the early Harry Potter movies than the LotRs movies. Interestingly, while I did read The Hobbit, it was over 20 years ago and while I remember liking it, I barely remember it. My girlfriend, who has read The Hobbit many many times was much more negative on the movie and spent a lot of time complaining about the changes. Another side note: it was well into the escape scene that I realized the Goblins and Orcs were two different things and that was only because it hit me that I remembered there was Goblin King in the book and that had to be the guy with the chin. I think the creators should have made a better effort to make the two races look more different. But I suppose they were stuck with what was done in the original movies where it made less of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/228 "2012-12-23T18:40:52Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Another side note: it was well into the escape scene that I realized the Goblins and Orcs were two different things and that was only because it hit me that I remembered there was Goblin King in the book and that had to be the guy with the chin. I think the creators should have made a better effort to make the two races look more different. But I suppose they were stuck with what was done in the original movies where it made less of a difference. Erm, actually, they’re not really different. The usage is a bit confused, but they are, at most, two different tribes/breeds of the same creature, and possibly just two different words for the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/229 "2012-12-23T19:11:30Z")
I saw it with my son. It’s a children’s book adapted into an action movie. I was bored of the rings. ---
**Author:** ![Thrasymachus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@Thrasymachus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thrasymachus)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/230 "2012-12-23T19:36:35Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > That said, never put bird shit on your actor’s face and leave it there for a dialogue scene. It will be _all. your audience. will see._ Heh! And that’s just the shit we could SEE. Radagast the Brown, indeed! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/231 "2012-12-23T20:40:24Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Erm, actually, they’re not really different. The usage is a bit confused, but they are, at most, two different tribes/breeds of the same creature, and possibly just two different words for the same thing. From other writings it appears that goblins are a smaller breed of orc. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/232 "2012-12-23T21:17:33Z")
speaking of Orc vs. Goblin - I realize now (thanks to earlier in the thread) that they are intended to be the same creature by Tolkien - but I actually prefer PJ’s usage here as I had always _thought_ them to be different creatures. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/233 "2012-12-23T22:35:26Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > The second film is called “The Desolation of Smaug”? Does that mean the third film will be mostly new stuff and the Necromancer? The phrase “The Desolation of Smaug” has nothing to do with Smaug’s death. It’s what the countryside around Erebor came to be called after Smaug moved in. The area had been desolated BY Smaug. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/234 "2012-12-24T02:31:28Z")
> [@simster](#): > > speaking of Orc vs. Goblin - I realize now (thanks to earlier in the thread) that they are intended to be the same creature by Tolkien - but I actually prefer PJ’s usage here as I had always _thought_ them to be different creatures. I must have misread something because I could have sworn someone earlier confirmed they are actually different. Either way it was minor. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/235 "2012-12-24T03:28:09Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I must have misread something because I could have sworn someone earlier confirmed they are actually different. Either way it was minor. I confirmed and then re-scinded 2 posts later - apparently Tolkien used the term ‘interchangebly’ - I still like them being different critters - If orcs are ‘bad elves’ - why couldn’t Goblins be ‘bad dwarves’. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/236 "2012-12-24T04:40:19Z")
One thing I noticed was that Orcrist and Glamdring didn’t glow in the Goblintown scenes or the fight scene after they escaped. They’re supposed to glow around orcs just like Sting does. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/237 "2012-12-24T04:49:24Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > One thing I noticed was that Orcrist and Glamdring didn’t glow in the Goblintown scenes or the fight scene after they escaped. They’re supposed to glow around orcs just like Sting does. But not as well. For example, when in Moria, Gandalf asks Frodo to see if Sting is glowing, when he’s carry Glamdring. Thus, my WAG is that Biter & Beater only glow in close proximity . ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/238 "2012-12-24T06:55:50Z")
Some of the stuff Jackson rewrote somewhat mangled up the sequence of events. Gandalf arriving to the party before Thorin I can understand, though I was disappointed that most of the book’s business with the rune on the door was lost. I think Jackson just made a mess of the troll sequence, though. The interior of the Misty Mountains seemed far too spacious to me, not to mention lit. A lot of the stuff Jackson added was generic movie tripe: The massive wood structures of the goblin city and its silly chase scene, and the uninspired chase story grafted on. The big important council, and the sense that Big Things are happening, kind of blows the overall historical timeline, doesn’t it? Wasn’t the _revanche_ of Erebor more a minor thing to the bigshot elves and wizards? I dunno. Mithrandir was pretty cool, and the eagles. I watched it out of curiosity about 48 fps. I think maybe the print I saw wasn’t 48 though, or my eyes don’t see the difference. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/239 "2012-12-24T08:56:04Z")
When _Fellowship of the Ring_ came out, Jackson stated that he did not have Glamdring glow blue, or Anduril glow red, because it would have looked too much like the lightsabers in _Star Wars_. Sting’s glow is a major plot point. The others’ would have been a distraction. I disagree, but I can understand his reasoning. I went in with low expectations, and I enjoyed most of it. I wish Jackson would subcontract the action sequences. He tends to be so over-the-top that I have difficulty suspending disbelief. Flesh-and-blood beings cannot survive those kinds of accellerations. I am not sure that stretching it out to three movies is a good idea, but it does allow him to keep a lot of details that would otherwise have been cut: Bilbo’s waistcoat buttons, the dwarves’ dishwashing, etc. With the fir tree scene, I wish he had dispensed with the battle, and kept the “fifteen birds in five fir trees” song. I have mixed feelings about the portrayal of Radagast. If he was a maia of Yavannah, humans were probably not his primary mission to begin with. On the other hand, regarding him as a buffoon was Saruman’s arrogance, not his real personality. But Galadriel was as beautiful as ever, and New Zealand’s mountains and forests are spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/240 "2012-12-24T16:32:33Z")
> [@simster](#): > > speaking of Orc vs. Goblin - I realize now (thanks to earlier in the thread) that they are intended to be the same creature by Tolkien - but I actually prefer PJ’s usage here as I had always _thought_ them to be different creatures. In the LOTR books, and in the movies, there were at least two races of orc: Saruman’s Uruk Hai and the orcs of Morder. The Uruk Hai were as large or larger than men, where other orcs were smaller. You can see the two races together in The Two Towers movie, lugging Merry and Pippin around Rohan. Given that, it’s not all that unreasonable for the Misty Mountain orcs to be yet a third race and have a different look from other orcs we’ve seen in the movies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000.md?page=13)