# Hobbit Movie -- I've seen it! \[open spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000 "2012-12-13T16:43:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/121 "2012-12-17T19:45:38Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > The “pretty-boy pop singer” was Neil Finn, a New Zealander, who, despite being relatively obscure on this side of the pond, has been hugely successful in that corner of the world for 30 years. He was front man for Crowded House, if that rings any bells. Okay, maybe I didn’t word that right. 🙂 I didn’t have any thing _against_ his version, per se, but it did nothing for me. The dwarves’ version was tons better and gave me chills (in a good way). ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/122 "2012-12-17T20:26:06Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Actually, both of those ARE Jackson’s fault, because neither of those scenes happened like that in the book. Jackson didn’t invent the Eagles coming to save everyone from the trees, that is straight from the book. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/123 "2012-12-17T21:46:46Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yeah the slideshow version’s great. You know what, with my issues with motion sickness, I might pay to watch a 24 frames per minute version instead of frames per second. ---
**Author:** ![catnoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@catnoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catnoe)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/124 "2012-12-17T22:00:43Z")
I was looking for the ‘like’ button for DMark’s post. Husband and I saw it saturday. Awesome. I’ve never read LOtR. Tried to read The Hobbit on several occasions and get no further than the dwarves arriving at Bilbo’s. Loved the movie. First I’ve seen in 3-D since a Friday the 13th movie in the 80’s. Took a bit of time to adjust to the glasses but well worth it. I admit some of CGI takes you out of the movie but just for a moment, not enough to bother us. The escape from the goblins was a bit over the top but it was fun and inventive. I never expect a movie to be exactly like the book, what works on paper doesn’t always translate to the screen. And sometimes trying to work in all the details and storylines in a book would make a movie ridiculously long. Saw The Princess Bride again last night and Hubby pointed out a few details not in the movie and Goldman wrote the screenplay. There is no way to make everybody happy when taking a favorite book to the screen. My answer is to sit back and just enjoy the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/125 "2012-12-17T23:04:40Z")
> [@catnoe](#): > > There is no way to make everybody happy when taking a favorite book to the screen. My answer is to sit back and just enjoy the movie. If that works for you, cool. For me, having just read and loved the book, part of the pleasure is thinking about what changes were made, why they were made, and whether I thought they were good changes. As I said earlier, I thought some of the changes were great, some of them were okay, and some of them were regrettable. Thinking about which were which is kind of fun :). ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/126 "2012-12-18T00:23:01Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > I know it is one of those “well then there’d be no movie” complaints but since no explanation is offered in movie, do the books have an explanation (I’ve read them but it has been more than 20 years) for why Gandalf can’t just short circuit much of things by asking the eagles for a ride from the Shire to Rivendell and then from Rivendell to the mountain? I havent seen the movie, but in the books the eagles decide to spite their old foes the goblins, and help out their friend Gandalf by giving the dwarves a lift of a few miles across their local territory. Thats not the same as carting dwarves for a thousand miles across half the continent so that Thorin can acquire some pretty rocks. I dont know about the movie, but in the books the dwarves goal is very much a private expedition for profit, not a heroic quest for the public good, like LotR. Gandalf is helping out for his own ends, but there is no particular reason for anyone else to get involved. The eagles do turn up to help at the Battle of the Five Armies, when its clear that something big is going down. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/127 "2012-12-18T00:31:46Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > I havent seen the movie, but in the books the eagles decide to spite their old foes the goblins, and help out their friend Gandalf by giving the dwarves a lift of a few miles across their local territory. Thats not the same as carting dwarves for a thousand miles across half the continent so that Thorin can acquire some pretty rocks. I agree with this. Unlike the similar question about LotR, there are perfectly good _reasons_ why the Eagles should not help in the quest, not merely retroactive excuses. This is a classic quest for treasure. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus\_alba](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quercus_alba/32/4061_2.png) [@Quercus\_alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus_alba)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/128 "2012-12-18T04:56:16Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > She’s 11 herself, and no, she’s not dating yet. 😉 > > She’s also a big Doctor Who fan. Raising your kids right WIN. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/129 "2012-12-18T06:15:34Z")
I’ve read everyones complaints and praises - I’m still amazed at how much polarity can happen with these movies - to each there own of course. For me and mine - we loved it - I thought it was well made and engaging - so far I am liking the extra things that make this more than ‘just’ The Hobbit -and I can’t wait for the continuation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/130 "2012-12-18T06:41:05Z")
So, and maybe this isn’t a fair question, because it wasn’t the complete film, but how does it compare to the Rankin-Bass animated Hobbit? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/131 "2012-12-18T12:59:19Z")
I’m finding this discussion fascinating, and am enjoying turning around in my mind the extent to which definitive value statements can be made about art/entertainment. I did not think this was at all a “good” movie, by which I suppose I mean that I did not enjoy it. Tho I should know better by now, when something affects me so strongly it surprises me that consensus cannot be reached as to the merits (or that I am so in the minority.) I guess I’m glad so many people are enjoying it. Anything that makes people happy and doesn’t hurt other people is good. However, having loved this book for 40 years or so since I was given an old paperback copy by my 7th grade teacher, I really wish they could have filmed it in a manner that I could have enjoyed. ---
**Author:** ![FasterThanMeerkats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@FasterThanMeerkats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FasterThanMeerkats)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/132 "2012-12-18T13:21:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > So, and maybe this isn’t a fair question, because it wasn’t the complete film, but how does it compare to the Rankin-Bass animated Hobbit? So far not as good in my book, though it has potential to meet/exceed if they can fix things going forward (which I’m hoping for, since we’d then have two great versions of the Hobbit!) The animated version had really well-written dialogue, voice acting, action, and flow, but had to cut a lot from the book. The new movie(s) has better action, worse everything else, but will cover more material. Also to clarify, I’m not talking about that LOTR animated film that was crap, I’m talking about the animated version of the Hobbit. There’s a world of difference. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/133 "2012-12-18T15:38:44Z")
> [@FasterThanMeerkats](#): > > The animated version had really well-written dialogue, voice acting, action, and flow, but had to cut a lot from the book. The new movie(s) has better action, worse everything else, but will cover more material. I find I have a hard time watching the old Rankin-Bass Hobbit these days without giggling, ever since I saw the South Park episode with Lemmiwinks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/134 "2012-12-18T15:54:48Z")
> [@FasterThanMeerkats](#): > > The animated version had really well-written dialogue, voice acting, action, and flow, but had to cut a lot from the book. The new movie(s) has better action, worse everything else, but will cover more material. What did Rankin-Bass cut? Last time I saw it (which was admittedly decades ago), I remember thinking it was pretty damn complete, except for Beorn. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/135 "2012-12-18T17:19:37Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > why didn’t bilbo use the ring to help save thorin? Surprised no one has addressed this yet: Bilbo _doesn’t know_ yet that the ring makes him invisible. I think the movie shows very well that he is quite confused as to why Gollum all of the sudden can not place him- but Gollum comes off as crazy enough that, hey, maybe this is just part of this crazy bastard’s dementia. Bilbo’s in sufficient distress the entire time he is wearing the ring that he has no cause to look down upon himself (is the ringbearer invisible to himself anyway?). The movie doesn’t really explain why he removes the ring before approaching the party of dwarves. It has been a _long time_ since I read the book, but I think I remember him, upon approaching the dwarves, being suddenly taken by a sense of guilt about his plunder, wanting to avoid questions should any dwarves notice the ring, and an overall feeling that he should keep the ring a secret. So he takes the ring off and puts it in his pocket. He does not take it off with the purpose of making himself visible- he did _not realize_ he had been invisible. Anyone who’s read the book more recently, please correct me if I’m wrong or expand upon the explanation as needed. Still, I am quite certain he was not yet aware of his invisibility at this point in the book and I see no reason to believe he was aware of his invisibility in the movie. My Question: Orcs and Goblins are different creatures, are they not? Comments in the Thread seem to be conflating them. I was under the impression that Orcs and Goblins were different- and I thought it a fault of the film that the characters designs for the two races were so similar. I didn’t think the Goblins had continued pursuit once the dwarves left the caves. The dwarves just had the misfortune to encounter the white orc who had been hunting them. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/136 "2012-12-18T17:34:27Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Orcs and Goblins are different creatures, are they not? > Comments in the Thread seem to be conflating them. I was under the impression that Orcs and Goblins were different- and I thought it a fault of the film that the characters designs for the two races were so similar. They’re the same thing. IIRC, the books occasionally use both terms, though “Goblin” predominate in The Hobbit while “Orc” is used most frequently in the other texts. But on the rare occasion when they switch, its clear its meant to refer to the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/137 "2012-12-18T17:46:41Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Surprised no one has addressed this yet: > Bilbo _doesn’t know_ yet that the ring makes him invisible. > > I think the movie shows very well that he is quite confused as to why Gollum all of the sudden can not place him- but Gollum comes off as crazy enough that, hey, maybe this is just part of this crazy bastard’s dementia. Bilbo’s in sufficient distress the entire time he is wearing the ring that he has no cause to look down upon himself (is the ringbearer invisible to himself anyway?). > The movie doesn’t really explain why he removes the ring before approaching the party of dwarves. It has been a _long time_ since I read the book, but I think I remember him, upon approaching the dwarves, being suddenly taken by a sense of guilt about his plunder, wanting to avoid questions should any dwarves notice the ring, and an overall feeling that he should keep the ring a secret. So he takes the ring off and puts it in his pocket. > > He does not take it off with the purpose of making himself visible- he did _not realize_ he had been invisible. > > Anyone who’s read the book more recently, please correct me if I’m wrong or expand upon the explanation as needed. Still, I am quite certain he was not yet aware of his invisibility at this point in the book and I see no reason to believe he was aware of his invisibility in the movie. > > My Question: > Orcs and Goblins are different creatures, are they not? > Comments in the Thread seem to be conflating them. I was under the impression that Orcs and Goblins were different- and I thought it a fault of the film that the characters designs for the two races were so similar. > > I didn’t think the Goblins had continued pursuit once the dwarves left the caves. The dwarves just had the misfortune to encounter the white orc who had been hunting them. This is the way I recall it - Orcs and Gobblins are different critters - and you’re correct - they had the misfortune of running into the orcs after leaving the caves. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/138 "2012-12-18T17:47:49Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > They’re the same thing. IIRC, the books occasionally use both terms, though “Goblin” predominate in The Hobbit while “Orc” is used most frequently in the other texts. But on the rare occasion when they switch, its clear its meant to refer to the same thing. I disagree - but have no evidence or cite to back it up, ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/139 "2012-12-18T17:48:32Z")
**bienville** , I’ve got the book in front of me, and sorry, you’re absolutely wrong. Bilbo realizes the ring makes him invisible while he’s running from Gollum. He trips and falls, and Gollum runs right past him. > [@](#): > > With a spring, Gollum got up and started shambling off at a great pace. Bilbo hurried after him, still cautiously, though his chief fear now was of tripping on another snag and falling with a noise. His head was in a whirl of hope and wonder. It seemed that the ring he had was a magic ring: it made you invisible! He had heard of such things of course, in old, old tales; but it was hard to believe that he really had found one, by accident. Still there it was: Gollum with his bright eyes had passed him by, only a yard to the side. And later when he’s sneaking up on the Dwarves, he purposely keeps the ring on to get past Balin the lookout, then takes it off just to surprise them: > [@](#): > > He had still got the ring on, for fear of meeting something unexpected and unpleasant, and he saw that Balin was looking straight at him without noticing him. > [@](#): > > Indeed, Bilbo was so pleased with their praise (about how he was able to sneak into the middle of them) that he just chuckled inside and said nothing whatever about the ring; and when they asked him how he did so he said: “O, just crept along you know - very carefully and quietly”. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000/140 "2012-12-18T17:51:32Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Jackson didn’t invent the Eagles coming to save everyone from the trees, that is straight from the book. Yes, but he DID invent Gandalf sending a moth to go fetch them. In the book, no one asks “Why didn’t they just send for the eagles right away?” because it’s obvious that the Eagles are not there to carry dwarves around. In the movie, on the other hand… On other topics: I disagree that Bilbo could possibly have NOT known that the ring made him invisible (Though I think he is visible to himself). If nothing else, the fact that he takes the ring off is proof of that. If you must try to explain Jackson’s dubious decision there, it’s probably that it was the heat of the moment and you don’t necessarily remember “HEY! I’ve got a magic ring in my pocket! Maybe I should use it to disappear before I go fight wargs!” Since this whole scene (Thorin going down to fight orcs and then needing to be rescued. The bit with the trees does happen.) doesn’t appear in the book, trying to go there for any explanation is obviously not going to help. Orcs & Goblins are essentially the same thing, but many sources take goblins to be smaller - since there are clearly multiple “breeds” of orc. The Rankin Bass version was pretty good, and the only thing that was actually CUT was Beorn, though many scenes were somewhat abbreviated. (Actually, I can’t remember how the dwarves get captured by the wood elves at all. I recall vague handwaving there.) I would rank the two movies similarly, though for very different reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hobbit-movie-ive-seen-it-open-spoilers/644000.md?page=8)