# Hol-eeee Crap!! School Suspends Student...After Spying on Him **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510 "2010-02-18T19:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/281 "2010-02-22T21:54:10Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Once again, it seems, from the system administrator’s own words, the laptops were configured to start taking photos (and uploading them to the school server) as soon as they went online from somewhere outside the school’s network. Like a student’s home. > > This explains how the VP got the photo. See my post above. I didn’t see anything there to indicate that the laptops automatically took photos at home. But it looks like the spyware was working even when the laptop was in the school network. But thanks for the link - unless they wrote a random theft report generator, it looks pretty bad. The school administration is clearly clueless, but I think we can start constructing the gallows for the IT guys. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/282 "2010-02-22T21:59:57Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/02/spy-at-harrington-high.html](http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/02/spy-at-harrington-high.html) > > Some updates on the matter. > The software they were using is LanRev. The school sysadmin had blogged about it at length. Bad idea. > > Apparently, all the laptops were configured so they’d start sending screenshots, IP address info and camera shots, as soon as they get online from anywhere outside the school’s network. > > Further, the laptop was _mandatory_ for classes. Using your own would get it confiscated. Isn’t that nice? > > From evidence in that blog post, from the school sysadmin discussing the program at length, the school spokesman has no idea what the hell he’s talking about. Enjoy. > > I hope the student’s family finds out about this post, it’s pretty much clear and clean. :eek: :eek: :eek: Okay, even ignoring the massive privacy violations involved with that, what’s the point? If they’re accessing the internet outside of school, presumably they aren’t using it to goof off in school. No way the school’s jurisdiction extends that far. Just…wow. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/283 "2010-02-22T22:00:30Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > But Lower Merion school district has very deep pockets. I don’t know what kind of damages it would be possible to get from a school via a lawsuit or a settlement, but if there ever was a prime target, this school is it. I’m not saying that money is the sole motivating factor in this case, but it is something to consider. I’d bet that the parents have deep pockets also - and good lawyers. Do you really think that lying about something so easily verified would be a good legal strategy? What ever the district says or doesn’t say, if this was totally bogus we’d probably not see lots of confirmation. Instead we see lots of reports of the webcam light going on at random times, and a bs response from the IT people. Very odd if there was nothing to this, very easy to explain if there is. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/284 "2010-02-22T22:01:05Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > Thanks for the information. I can’t believe this IT guy was blogging under his real name about a security system that he was administering at work. If this bolded part in your quote is true, there should be thousands of pictures, right? I guess I’m not tech savvy enough to understand where the bolded part is explained in his blog. Can someone point me to the quote? I haven’t had a chance to listen, it might be in the [Webcast](http://webcast.macenterprise.org/2008Webcasts/2008-05-20-LANrev-Webcast.zip). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/285 "2010-02-22T22:10:51Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Yeah, it’s so airtight you think the district’s first statement would have been, “It was reported stolen, and as part of our recovery process the webcam was activated and it was found that the student had fraudulently reported the laptop stolen.” > > Wait, no, instead they busted him for “inappropriate activity”. > > -Joe This. He was “busted” for inappropriate activity- eating candy. If they had busted him for misreporting the laptop as stolen, then they could say they used the camera as part of the effort to recover it. Then they could also take action against him for that. \* still woner about that computer (or several computers?) being remotely activated 42 times. Were there really 42 computers stolen (or reported stolen)? Or ws it just his, stolen a lot of times. Added on edit: > [@](#): > > Did the school district file police reports on the other missing/lost/stolen computers? if not why not? At this point, I suspect there won’t be any police reports on file for these ummmmm 42 computers. Why? I think it’s a last ditch effort to save some asses, after the fact. I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![twhitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@twhitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twhitt)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/286 "2010-02-22T22:13:45Z")
In the webcast, the school’s network tech Mike Perbix says that the laptop periodically queries the school’s server whenever it is connected to the internet. In the event that the server is told that the tracking feature for that laptop is enabled, the laptop will begin to send out “heartbeats” which contain a screenshot, webcam pic, local network information, and tracert information to the server over that internet connection. This segment of the webcast is available on youtube [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu92imqJec). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/287 "2010-02-22T22:14:55Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > If the kid reported the computer stolen, then I have no problem with the school turning on the webcam remotely, in an attempt to locate it. The problem is that the kid and his family deny having done so, and the school claims that they’ve only used the remote monitoring in cases of lost or stolen laptops. So the problem is the disconnect between those statements. > > No. The school said that the program is activated if the laptop is reported stolen, lost OR MISSING. It is possible (although we do not know this) that the laptop was reported missing by someone other than the student’s family (e.g., a teacher could have reported it missing). > > ETA: It also could have been reported stolen or lost by someone other than the student or his family (e.g., a teacher). That’s also possible, but also makes no sense. If this computer was issued to him at the beginning of the school year, who else would or could report it lost, missing or stolen? ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/288 "2010-02-22T22:19:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’d bet that the parents have deep pockets also - and good lawyers. Do you really think that lying about something so easily verified would be a good legal strategy? > > What ever the district says or doesn’t say, if this was totally bogus we’d probably not see lots of confirmation. Instead we see lots of reports of the webcam light going on at random times, and a bs response from the IT people. Very odd if there was nothing to this, very easy to explain if there is. The family may or may not have as much money as the school district - I don’t know. I don’t know whether or not the family is misrepresenting or mistaken about any part of the story. It does sometimes happen that facts that are alleged in a complaint are not correct, though. That can happen through an honest misunderstanding or lack of access to relevant facts, too. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/289 "2010-02-22T22:19:57Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/02/spy-at-harrington-high.html](http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/02/spy-at-harrington-high.html) > > Some updates on the matter. > The software they were using is LanRev. The school sysadmin had blogged about it at length. Bad idea. > > Apparently, all the laptops were configured so they’d start sending screenshots, IP address info and camera shots, as soon as they get online from anywhere outside the school’s network. Busted. > [@](#): > > Further, the laptop was _mandatory_ for classes. Using your own would get it confiscated. Isn’t that nice? If you mean they would confiscate the “unauthorized” computer, good luck with that. Some clown comes here to “confiscate” anything that belongs to us (and that includes The Kid), can sit here and wait for the police to pick him up, because he won’t be taking anything. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/290 "2010-02-22T22:23:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Busted. > If you mean they would confiscate the “unauthorized” computer, good luck with that. Some clown comes here to “confiscate” anything that belongs to us (and that includes The Kid), can sit here and wait for the police to pick him up, because he won’t be taking anything. If brought to school, it would be confiscated. Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment, I can see a legitimate reason to only use school issued laptops. Who knows what malware might be on a students personal laptop? ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/291 "2010-02-22T22:28:32Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That’s also possible, but also makes no sense. If this computer was issued to him at the beginning of the school year, who else would or could report it lost, missing or stolen? Was the computer issued to him at the beginning of the school year? Did he have the same computer the whole time? I didn’t see that in the complaint. I don’t know. I agree it is unlikely that a teacher or IT person would report a student’s laptop missing, lost or stolen. It is possible, though. I wouldn’t say it makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![twhitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@twhitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twhitt)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/292 "2010-02-22T22:28:49Z")
One student reported this: > [@](#): > > I had brought in my own personal computer to work on a project for school one day. I was doing a presentation involving programs not available on the regular computers, only in specific labs. I happened to have a copy of my own. My personal property was confiscated from me in a study hall when I was working on a school assignment because it was against the schools ‘code of conduct’. [http://www.saveardmorecoalition.org/node/4216](http://www.saveardmorecoalition.org/node/4216) I believe this is what is meant by confiscated. It involved personal property on school grounds; the school probably does posses this authority; it’s just that its enforcement in this context also seems draconian. If you’re requiring the students to use laptops in class, why can they not use their own? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/293 "2010-02-22T22:34:29Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > If brought to school, it would be confiscated. > Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment, I can see a legitimate reason to only use school issued laptops. Who knows what malware might be on a students personal laptop? In schoolit is a different matter, and yes malware/viruses/security would be valid reasons on school property… provided it was not a permanent confiscation. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/294 "2010-02-22T22:43:45Z")
> [@twhitt](#): > > In the webcast, the school’s network tech Mike Perbix says that the laptop periodically queries the school’s server whenever it is connected to the internet. In the event that the server is told that the tracking feature for that laptop is enabled, the laptop will begin to send out “heartbeats” which contain a screenshot, webcam pic, local network information, and tracert information to the server over that internet connection. This segment of the webcast is available on youtube [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu92imqJec). I wonder if Dr. McGinley was, or is, aware of this. [Lord Acton’s comment](http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/288200.html). [Or, as the cartoonist would have it,](http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jmo0132l.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/295 "2010-02-22T23:53:30Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > In schoolit is a different matter, and yes malware/viruses/security would be valid reasons on school property… > provided it was not a permanent confiscation. Malware/viruses/security becomes a total non-issue if only the school would instead of sending expensive laptop to the students homes, would require all school work to be done using a school generated Linux boot CD. I’m not a raving Linux fan-boy (typing this on a Windows 7 machine), but this seems like a no-brainer. Make PC and Mac versions available, give the students USB keys to save their work to, and log the hours the students are logged into the school Linux system - requiring a minimum amount of time per school night. Once done, the students can reboot their machines back to their usual malware encrusted state. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/296 "2010-02-23T00:41:44Z")
[The ACLU filed an amicus brief in the case today.](http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Robbinsfinal.pdf) (PDF) In other news > [@](#): > > In U.S. District Court in Philadelphia this afternoon, Judge Jan E. Dubois stopped short of issuing an injunction but issued an order that prohibits the district from remotely activating any webcam in the computers. > > Dubois also ordered that the computer issued to Robbins be turned over to a consultant who will make a “mirror image” of the computer’s hard drive. [http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/84992782.html](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/84992782.html) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/297 "2010-02-23T00:46:34Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > The family may or may not have as much money as the school district - I don’t know. I don’t know whether or not the family is misrepresenting or mistaken about any part of the story. It does sometimes happen that facts that are alleged in a complaint are not correct, though. That can happen through an honest misunderstanding or lack of access to relevant facts, too. Since the laptops could be taken home, I don’t see how anyone but the student and family could report them stolen - not being in the school was the normal case, not the abnormal case. So, either the family is lying or the laptop was not reported stolen by anyone with a legitimate reason to do so. If the family had not seen the picture, I can see them being deluded about the innocence of the kid. I wonder if they were handed a copy? ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/298 "2010-02-23T00:56:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Since the laptops could be taken home, I don’t see how anyone but the student and family could report them stolen - not being in the school was the normal case, not the abnormal case. So, either the family is lying or the laptop was not reported stolen by anyone with a legitimate reason to do so. > > If the family had not seen the picture, I can see them being deluded about the innocence of the kid. I wonder if they were handed a copy? Good question. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/299 "2010-02-23T01:03:02Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > That’s what the plaintiff’s complaint alleges. I just read the complaint, and it alleges only that the photo was taken by the webcam and transmitted to the district. It could have been stored on the computer as part of the process (and probably was) but that was not in the complaint. The recital of the laws did mention information stored on computers, but the relevance here seemed to be the software used to take the picture, not the picture itself. If the district also scanned disks for improper content, that would not be covered in the complaint as I read it. Employers are permitted to scan the disks of employees if they own the computers. Assuming the district owned these, I don’t think scanning the disks would be violation of privacy. I’d guess that the rules of the program forbade students from loading anything improper onto the disks. If I’m reading the complaint wrong, please give me the page number of the claim. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/300 "2010-02-23T01:42:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I didn’t see anything there to indicate that the laptops automatically took photos at home. But it looks like the spyware was working even when the laptop was in the school network. But thanks for the link - unless they wrote a random theft report generator, it looks pretty bad. The school administration is clearly clueless, but I think we can start constructing the gallows for the IT guys. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/hHu92imqJec/hqdefault.jpg "Mike Perbix talks about spying with laptop remote admin software") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu92imqJec) As long as tracking is on, there you go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=16)