# Hol-eeee Crap!! School Suspends Student...After Spying on Him **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510 "2010-02-18T19:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/301 "2010-02-23T01:48:19Z")
[This link](http://www.saveardmorecoalition.org/blog/2) claims that students were completely “locked out” of the webcam, and that trying to break the “locks” is an expulsion offense. Ergo, it’s apparently vanishingly unlikely that the photo was taken by the student himself. Which makes sense; why would the school give students access to webcams (and expose them to lawsuits that way) when they’re generally not used in schoolwork? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/302 "2010-02-23T03:30:44Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > On the other hand, presume young Blake to be using his own laptop. Owner is the School District, but _he is an authorized user_ – just as the principal of his school is the authorized user of the principal’s office, or the driver’s ed teacher is of the District’s cars equipped for teaching student drivers, or any kid in any school of the textbooks he’s issued at the beginning of the year. But it isn’t his, and I assume there’s legalese to the point that once you declare it missing or stolen, or take a loaner off school property without permission, you \*stop \*being authorized user. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/303 "2010-02-23T03:33:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It might be. > > If the laptop was reported stolen, then it seems clear the police (or the school) may activate the camera without offending the Fourth Amendment.. Thank you, that’s what I thought. Now, what do you think about the fact that the Plaintiff is babbling all sorts of stuff to the press, but the defendant is saying nothing about the specifics of the case? Here’s a link to the Districts statement: [http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?t=today&p=lmsd\_anno&id=1143](http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?t=today&p=lmsd_anno&id=1143) ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/304 "2010-02-23T03:40:09Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu92imqJec](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHu92imqJec) What I gathered from the video. When the laptop is away from the school network, it checks in with the security server on a regular basis. If the server tells the laptop that it’s flagged as stolen or missing, the laptop steps up a level of reporting to include screenshots, webcam shots, and full IP tracking data. If this is the way it’s implimented, they’re most likely covered. About the only other thing they might have needed to do would be to file a police report that the laptop was stolen before activating the monitoring function. Also, this from the video comments. > [@](#): > > i go to Lower Merion… > > all of these statements are being blown completely blown out proportion. First off it was not even our school, it was another school (harriton high school) which is also in our district. **One kid never paid his insurance for the computer, thus he wasn’t allowed to take it home. However, he took it home so it was reported as stolen.** Therefore it was a justified use of the program. Many schools have this program our school is just different because each student is allo Bolding mine. If this were the case here, removing the laptop from the school would automatically qualify it as stolen. Like everyone else, I await the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/305 "2010-02-23T03:57:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But it isn’t his, and I assume there’s legalese to the point that once you declare it missing or stolen, or take a loaner off school property without permission, you \*stop \*being authorized user. True. But _that it was a loaner is speculation._ What we know is that it was “a school-issue laptop”; whether it was the one issued to him (which everyone seems to have inferred before the school brought up the issue of loaners) or a loaner, has not been clearly established. And if it was the one issued to him, on which he was supposed to do his schoolwork, it becomes absurdist to make an argument that he was not an authorized user. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/306 "2010-02-23T05:09:03Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I just read the complaint, and it alleges only that the photo was taken by the webcam and transmitted to the district. It could have been stored on the computer as part of the process (and probably was) but that was not in the complaint. The recital of the laws did mention information stored on computers, but the relevance here seemed to be the software used to take the picture, not the picture itself. > > If the district also scanned disks for improper content, that would not be covered in the complaint as I read it. Employers are permitted to scan the disks of employees if they own the computers. Assuming the district owned these, I don’t think scanning the disks would be violation of privacy. I’d guess that the rules of the program forbade students from loading anything improper onto the disks. > > If I’m reading the complaint wrong, please give me the page number of the claim. My bad – I read the complaint wrong. I read it as saying that the photo was embedded in the laptop, but now I see it as saying that the webcam was embedded in the laptop. It does not allege where the picture was stored or how the district got it. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/307 "2010-02-23T05:33:39Z")
From the Philadelphia Inquirer > [@](#): > > Also today, new clues surfaced in the lingering mystery of why the district remotely activated the camera in Robbins’ laptop. > > The district contends the Robbinses failed to pay a required $55 insurance fee - and therefore, Blake was barred from taking home a laptop. The school has a pool of “loaners” for students who haven’t paid the fee or are waiting for a new laptop. > > The fee question was mentioned by U.S. District Judge Jan E. DuBois in court yesterday, as he tried to craft a compromise between dueling versions on the order, submitted by the two sides’ lawyers. > > Haltzman said after the hearing that he knew of no problem with fees or permissions. The lawyer said Robbins’ school laptop had broken and he took a replacement home “every single day” for a month - with no one at school objecting or reporting it missing. > > “Now we hear about all these issues,” Haltzman said. “He didn’t do anything wrong.” > > The order says Robbins will turn over the laptop to a technician who will make a mirror image of its hard drive. The teen is to get a replacement laptop - as soon as school officials receive any unpaid insurance fees. [http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/85011977.html](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/85011977.html) ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/308 "2010-02-23T05:59:31Z")
> [@](#): > > The district contends the Robbinses failed to pay a required $55 insurance fee - and therefore, Blake was barred from taking home a laptop. The school has a pool of “loaners” for students who haven’t paid the fee or are waiting for a new laptop. If this is true, then they would have told him he wasn’t supposed to bring home a loaner, as opposed to telling him he shouldn’t eat Mike and Ikes. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/309 "2010-02-23T06:02:12Z")
[Here is a copy of the court’s Order](http://americasright.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Robbins-Order.pdf) (PDF) and an excerpt from the Order > [@](#): > > The Parties agree that the laptop currently in Plaintiff’s possession shall be turned over in its current condition to a mutually agreed upon forensic consultant who shall make a mirror image of the hard drive using a mutually agreed upon methodology. The mutually agreed upon forensic consultant shall retain possession of the laptop during the pendency of the litigation. LMSD shall provide Plaintiff with a new laptop for his use immediately upon receipt of any fees due for insurance in accordance with LMSD standard policy. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/310 "2010-02-23T06:10:48Z")
The kid and family can say whatever they want in public, though their lawyers might prefer otherwise. The district can’t say anything in public because they cannot violate the student’s privacy. I know they appear to have done so in other domains, but they would certainly do well to shut up entirely except during the legal proceedings. Any person or entity that has the obligation to protect someone’s privacy can’t do image management, and their lack of commentary means nothing about their guilt or innocence. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/311 "2010-02-23T11:17:19Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > If this were the case here, removing the laptop from the school would automatically qualify it as stolen. Provided the ‘insurance’ wasn’t paid. Apparently, therefore, if the insurance was paid, it could be brought home. Ah, and now they’re claiming there was a problem with the insurance. Doesn’t matter, really, they’re still bitching the kid out for something he did at home. Not for ‘stealing’ the laptop. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/312 "2010-02-23T13:17:20Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Since the laptops could be taken home, I don’t see how anyone but the student and family could report them stolen - not being in the school was the normal case, not the abnormal case. So, either the family is lying or the laptop was not reported stolen by anyone with a legitimate reason to do so. Pure speculation here, but imagine this…a laptop is reported stolen or missing by person X, and the ID number mistakenly refers to the wrong laptop. Said laptop’s webcam is activated and hilarity ensues… ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/313 "2010-02-23T14:20:38Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Provided the ‘insurance’ wasn’t paid. Apparently, therefore, if the insurance was paid, it could be brought home. Ah, and now they’re claiming there was a problem with the insurance. Doesn’t matter, really, they’re still bitching the kid out for something he did at home. Not for ‘stealing’ the laptop. It’s easily verifiable if the insurance was paid, so the truth will come out. Apparently, there’s a paypal system so the family and the school should both have access to an electronic record of the payment. If the family has proof that they did pay the fee, it seems likely that they would release that information to the press. I think the family’s primary complaint is the violation of privacy - that the school allegedly took the picture while the student was in his home. I wonder what really happened at that meeting with the school administrator. As I mentioned upthread, it’s possible that once the school had a picture depitcting what they believed to be potentially dangerous behavior, they had a duty to disclose to the family, or they had to disclose for liability reasons. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/314 "2010-02-23T16:05:45Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > It’s easily verifiable if the insurance was paid, so the truth will come out. Apparently, there’s a paypal system so the family and the school should both have access to an electronic record of the payment. If the family has proof that they did pay the fee, it seems likely that they would release that information to the press. > > I think the family’s primary complaint is the violation of privacy - that the school allegedly took the picture while the student was in his home. I wonder what really happened at that meeting with the school administrator. As I mentioned upthread, it’s possible that once the school had a picture depitcting what they believed to be potentially dangerous behavior, they had a duty to disclose to the family, or they had to disclose for liability reasons. If, as they say, he’s been taking the loaner home for a month due to his primary laptop being worked on, seems hard to justify activating the webcam regardless of the insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/315 "2010-02-23T16:27:45Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > If, as they say, he’s been taking the loaner home for a month due to his primary laptop being worked on, seems hard to justify activating the webcam regardless of the insurance. OK, with the new information here is my new WAG. The kid has been given a loaner and evn though they haven’t paid the insurance no one really cares. Since it is technically “stolen” the automatic system is doing the picture taking, logging, etc, but no one gives a shit because the kid needs to get his homework done and the missed insurance payment is just a formality like a library fine that will ultimately be paid. Of course, the parents have no idea that the school is taking a picture every day the kid brings the computer home. Meanwhile, the assistant principal, looking through the pictures taken by the camera sees the kid eating Mike and Ikes and being a complete moron decides its drugs and calls the parents in and makes the accusation. Hilarity ensues… ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/316 "2010-02-23T16:47:15Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > OK, with the new information here is my new WAG. > > The kid has been given a loaner and evn though they haven’t paid the insurance no one really cares. Since it is technically “stolen” the automatic system is doing the picture taking, logging, etc, but no one gives a shit because the kid needs to get his homework done and the missed insurance payment is just a formality like a library fine that will ultimately be paid. Of course, the parents have no idea that the school is taking a picture every day the kid brings the computer home. Meanwhile, the assistant principal, looking through the pictures taken by the camera sees the kid eating Mike and Ikes and being a complete moron decides its drugs and calls the parents in and makes the accusation. Hilarity ensues… That’s exactly what I was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/317 "2010-02-23T16:55:01Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > If this were the case here, removing the laptop from the school would automatically qualify it as stolen. > > Like everyone else, I await the facts. Maybe, but “automatically qualifies as stolen” I don’t think automatically justifies turning on such an invasive tool, when any right thinking person knows the 99.95% most likely situation is that the kid took it home. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/318 "2010-02-23T19:48:48Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > OK, with the new information here is my new WAG. > > The kid has been given a loaner and evn though they haven’t paid the insurance no one really cares. Since it is technically “stolen” the automatic system is doing the picture taking, logging, etc, but no one gives a shit because the kid needs to get his homework done and the missed insurance payment is just a formality like a library fine that will ultimately be paid. Of course, the parents have no idea that the school is taking a picture every day the kid brings the computer home. Meanwhile, the assistant principal, looking through the pictures taken by the camera sees the kid eating Mike and Ikes and being a complete moron decides its drugs and calls the parents in and makes the accusation. Hilarity ensues… I think this sounds like what might have happened, assuming the family is correct that he had been taking the same laptop home for a month. How did the school discover that the picture was taken (or pictures), and why did they look at it? Did they have an obligation to disclose the picture-taking to the family once they had discovered it? Was the Mike and Ike thing a side story? I am curious to know what really happened. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/319 "2010-02-23T22:41:49Z")
> [@susan](#): > > The kid and family can say whatever they want in public, though their lawyers might prefer otherwise. The district can’t say anything in public because they cannot violate the student’s privacy. I know they appear to have done so in other domains, but they would certainly do well to shut up entirely except during the legal proceedings. Any person or entity that has the obligation to protect someone’s privacy can’t do image management, and their lack of commentary means nothing about their guilt or innocence. From ComputerWorld: > [@](#): > > The consent order, which was agreed to by lawyers of both parties, also prevents Lower Merion officials from communicating with students and parents regarding the lawsuit; if the district wants to update parents on the case, it must submit the text of the announcement to the Robbins’ attorneys at least six hours before sending out the information. > > In their Friday filing, the Robbins accused school district employees, including the superintendent, Christopher McGinley, with making “loud speaker announcements to all students allegedly commenting on the litigation, making false and untrue accusations [and] disparaging the Plaintiffs.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/320 "2010-02-23T23:04:13Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > If this is true, then they would have told him he wasn’t supposed to bring home a loaner, as opposed to telling him he shouldn’t eat Mike and Ikes. After a month of allowing him to take the “loaner” home (if that’s the case), I think it’s fair to say they set the precedent. To come up with an “insurance” or “security” fee now, after the fact, doesn’t smell right. If he wasn’t supposed to take it home, why didn’t they just tell him up front (or did they)? The whole month thing is fishy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=17)