# Hol-eeee Crap!! School Suspends Student...After Spying on Him **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510 "2010-02-18T19:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/41 "2010-02-18T20:53:28Z")
We may have here an outrage thread that even \*\*ivn90210 \*\*approves of. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/42 "2010-02-18T20:57:32Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > ETA: The filing asserts that no information/releases given to parents acknowledged the presence of remote web cam access. In case others don’t want to bother flipping through the document: It also doesn’t specify the “misbehavior,” and does allege that they were told by the assistant principal - who suspected said misbehavior - that the webcams can be remotely accessed and activated by them, and that this is how the photo was obtained. (Points 23 and 24 in the document.) ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/43 "2010-02-18T21:00:59Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > I’d like to wait and see more evidence that it actually occurred the way the complaint alleges it did. Good policy regarding any complaint. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/44 "2010-02-18T21:06:28Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > [Link to PDF of class-action lawsuit filed.](http://craphound.com/robbins17.pdf) > > Just another data point on the continuum we’ve been setting up for decades. Check out the documentary _[The War on Kids](http://www.openleft.com/diary/17423/#217076)._ Link goes to a review and interview with the creator, link to website for the movie itself in the article. Fascinating, disturbing, horrifying. Readily available to those who know how. > > ETA: The filing asserts that no information/releases given to parents acknowledged the presence of remote web cam access. Thanks for the link; I hadn’t heard of this film before. Ordered a copy and may order more for teachers I know, if it’s worthwhile viewing. Sure seems like it will be. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/45 "2010-02-18T21:07:51Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > As to the software issue - there _may be_ a legitimate use for remotely-activated cameras. I just can’t think of one right now. I used to have one trained on my ferret cage at home, but shut it down because I never really had time to watch it when away from home (and when I did, they were always sleeping). As no one else (usually) used that computer, there was no real chance of using it to spy on the activities of anyone who had less than 4 legs. The technology is essentially the same as used in baby-cams or nanny-cams. My guess is that the laptop cam is in a fixed position, so unless s/he was stripping/masturbating for someone on webcam, I’m curious what the offense could be. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/46 "2010-02-18T21:09:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m not really all that surprised. Look at the other thread here in the Pit about spying on kids, and all the people defending their right to search their kids, their rooms, read their diaries and in general treat kids like inmates in prison. Given that schools act as more-or-less secondary parents, I find it quite believable that the same kind of people who say they have a right to read their kid’s diary would feel they have a right to spy on their students with a webcam. One attitude is a pretty straightfoward extension of the other. Dude, hardly anyone in that thread stated anything quite as extreme as you suggest, and furthermore, these two issues aren’t really related. The parents have parental rights, the school does not while the student is at the home of his parents. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/47 "2010-02-18T21:11:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thanks for the link; I hadn’t heard of this film before. Ordered a copy and may order more for teachers I know, if it’s worthwhile viewing. Sure seems like it will be. I’m watching it right now and as a grandmother of a teenaged boy whose teachers have been pushing to be medicated for years I’m shocked, appalled, sickened, disgusted and about to urge his mother to pull him out of school at the end of this year (8th grade at an arts/theatrics/music middle school) and home school him. I think it’d be better for all of us, all around. The worst part is that so much of the stuff in this film I have empirical evidence of in my own experience. This is so fucking wrong I don’t have the words, I really don’t. It really is just as bad as you think–and a whole lot worse. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/48 "2010-02-18T21:16:39Z")
Do we know that the student didn’t take the picture of himself, and that it fell into the school’s hands somehow? I can imagine a situation where: – the student takes an inappropriate picture of himself using the school laptop – he emails or texts it to his girlfriend – she forwards it to her BFF – and soon everyone in the school has it – one “juinior mod” forwards it to the school administration – the school suspends the student for using the school’s laptop inappropriately If that’s what happened, suddenly the school’s actions are not so… insane. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/49 "2010-02-18T21:21:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m not really all that surprised. Look at the other thread here in the Pit about spying on kids, and all the people defending their right to search their kids, their rooms, read their diaries and in general treat kids like inmates in prison. You are letting your experience cloud what is actually being said. And school is not (or at least, should not be) a secondary parent. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/50 "2010-02-18T21:27:42Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Do we know that the student didn’t take the picture of himself, and that it fell into the school’s hands somehow? Except that’s completely inconsistent with the allegations in the class-action lawsuit. Of course, we’ve only heard one side of the argument here: some of the plaintiffs’ allegations may be unsupported by evidence, and the defendants may have some justification that we haven’t heard about. However, if: (1) school officials remotely activated webcams to spy on activities within sight of the school laptops outside the school, and (2) they did this without the knowledge or permission of the parents/guardians or of the students, then that seems to be both morally and legally indefensible on the part of the school. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/51 "2010-02-18T21:36:05Z")
[[QUOTE=philly.com](http://QUOTE=philly.com)] The suit also claims the district’s use of the webcams amounted to an invasion of privacy and that any intercepted images could show “images of minors and their parents or friends in compromising or embarrassing positions, including, but not limited to, in various states of undress.” [/QUOTE] Ewww!! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/52 "2010-02-18T21:36:56Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > This sounds insane, but I’d like to wait and see more evidence that it actually occurred the way the complaint alleges it did. I can easily imagine it eventually coming out that the picture, whatever it was, was actually obtained by other means (e.g., the student taking it himself and showing it to friends who then proceeded to share it in turn, getting out of hand). Yeah, the story, as told so far, sounds beyond the realm of stupidity into outright implausibility. There’s got to be something more to it. I can’t imagine any school administration to be this stupid–not just admitting putting on webcam spying software on their computers, but admitting to actively using it to a parent. It just doesn’t add up. Then again, stupidity knows no bounds. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/53 "2010-02-18T21:39:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, the story, as told so far, sounds beyond the realm of stupidity into outright implausibility. There’s got to be something more to it. I can’t imagine any school administration to be this stupid–not just admitting putting on webcam spying software on their computers, but admitting to actively using it to a parent. It just doesn’t add up. > > Then again, stupidity knows no bounds. Section 24 of the complaint says the Vice-Principal confirmed to the father of the student about the capabilities of the laptop. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/54 "2010-02-18T21:42:37Z")
That there is some weapons-grade stupid, if it turns out to be true. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/55 "2010-02-18T21:44:29Z")
Tech question: Is there a way for me to _conditionally_ subscribe to this thread? That is, only be notified in the even that a post appears which actually says what the alleged “inappropriate behavior” was that prompted the suspension? ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/56 "2010-02-18T21:44:39Z")
“The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.” - Harlan Ellison I’m in the wait for all the facts camp, but I really can’t imagine any combination of details which makes a school administrator having what amounts to a private webcam in a teenager’s bedroom a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/57 "2010-02-18T21:46:55Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > [Link to PDF of class-action lawsuit filed.](http://craphound.com/robbins17.pdf) I’m going to wait for something a little more concrete - or at least a complaint from a lawyer who can spell _indiscriminate._ ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/58 "2010-02-18T21:47:58Z")
I just thought back to how I would have felt if I found out that there was a possibility of some school administrator having seen me walking around my room with no clothes on or something. Yaaaaarrrrgh! We were embarrassed if the female gym teacher walked by when we were changing from our regular shirts to a gym t-shirt and we had bras on and faced the lockers! I can’t even imagine how mortified I’d feel if some teacher or administrator saw me nude after a shower or something. I’m TOTALLY skeeved out. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/59 "2010-02-18T21:56:57Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > then that seems to be both morally and legally indefensible on the part of the school. I can’t speak for the merits of this case, but “morally and legally defensible” never seems to enter into the equation. Too many school and college administrators seem to act like they are supreme rulers of their little fiefs and are not subject to the laws of the land or the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/60 "2010-02-18T21:57:34Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How could they even hope to monitor that many students outside of school hours; or, to put it another way, how much money did they blow on paying the people who did the spying? > > The school couldn’t hope to watch them all, all the time. If there’s any truth to this story, I suspect they had some sort of trigger built in so that someone was notified and the camera activated if the student surfed to an unapproved website. If the school didn’t want students looking at unapproved websites, it could have installed filtering software before issuing the computers to the students. I don’t think the intent was to spy on every student all the time. My guess is that there was a complaint about the student, which triggered the monitoring, but I have no more information than anyone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=4)