# Hol-eeee Crap!! School Suspends Student...After Spying on Him **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510 "2010-02-18T19:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/61 "2010-02-18T21:57:54Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Section 24 of the complaint says the Vice-Principal confirmed to the father of the student about the capabilities of the laptop. Like I said, I’d like to hear more. The complaint can say allege a whole lot of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/62 "2010-02-18T22:00:57Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > If the school didn’t want students looking at unapproved websites, it could have installed filtering software before issuing the computers to the students. > > I don’t think the intent was to spy on every student all the time. My guess is that there was a complaint about the student, which triggered the monitoring, but I have no more information than anyone else. That still doesn’t say what business it is of the school what the kid does at home. If he’s surfing porn on a school owned laptop, that’s one thing, there’s a record on the machine of where he went. But a photo of him in his room at home? Not the school’s concern. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/63 "2010-02-18T22:03:41Z")
Administrator “Did you know that there’s this picture of your son smoking a joint floating around school?” Mom “SON!! How did this happen?!” Son “Uh…the school must have remotely turned on my laptop…yeah, that’s it…and uh, took the picture from my webcam! And…uh…sent it to all my friends!” Mom “Well, no one’s going to make a fool of MY son. Let’s sue them!” Coulda happened that way. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/64 "2010-02-18T22:04:07Z")
The school district [website](http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?m=0&t=today&p=lmsd_anno&id=1137) published a statement about this, in which they said that they’ve disabled the security feature to track stolen and missing laptops. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/65 "2010-02-18T22:08:06Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > That still doesn’t say what business it is of the school what the kid does at home. > > If he’s surfing porn on a school owned laptop, that’s one thing, there’s a record on the machine of where he went. But a photo of him in his room at home? Not the school’s concern. I didn’t say it was OK; in fact, I think it’s a morally and ethically despicable act on the school’s part. All I’m saying is that I think someone ratted the kid out, which triggered the “monitoring”. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/66 "2010-02-18T22:13:09Z")
Warning - wild ass guesses ahead: There is a security feature that allows one to log into a laptop if it was stolen. I recall that this was used in Vancouver last year, and caught a nice picture of someone using a stolen laptop (turns out he bought it innocently enough, and was horrified to see his mug splashed on the nightly news!) So… Feature is on the kids’ laptops. A bonehead in one school thinks it might be useful… He suspects that little johnny is skipping class and faking notes from “mom”. He tunes in to Johnny’s laptop and sees him running around the house like in “Risky Business”. Little Johnny gets suspended. Parent’s ask “how did you know he was not sick in bed?” Bonehead administrator says “HaHa!!! We have him playing air guitar and eating pizza on video!! Ha ha! He’s busted!” Shit then hits fan. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/67 "2010-02-18T22:14:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Like I said, I’d like to hear more. The complaint can say allege a whole lot of stuff. Yes, but any statement of defense (i.e. “answer”) filed should respond to whatever allegations are claimed in the complaint. Whether the allegations are flatly denied; or of the “admit X but not Y or Z” variety, or of the “admit X but submit that the purpose of X was Y, not Z as claimed,” or other variations on those themes, is what’s going to be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/68 "2010-02-18T22:14:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The school district [website](http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?m=0&t=today&p=lmsd_anno&id=1137) published a statement about this, in which they said that they’ve disabled the security feature to track stolen and missing laptops. That’s what I was thinking the software could have been used for initially. In the event that a machine turned up stolen the school could track the thief somehow. Or if they wanted to track a certain student’s behavior with the assistance of the local police. I doubt that the school would just randomly spy on kids until they caught one doing something wrong, and then admit they did so publicly. There has to be more they can’t say for the time being due to a possible investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/69 "2010-02-18T22:17:28Z")
whups! > [@](#): > > 18 Pa.C.S.A. § 5703 > > Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a person is guilty of a felony of the third degree if he: > > (1) intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept, or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to intercept any wire, electronic or oral communication; > (2) intentionally discloses or endeavors to disclose to any other person the contents of any wire, electronic or oral communication, or evidence derived therefrom, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, electronic or oral communication; or > (3) intentionally uses or endeavors to use the contents of any wire, electronic or oral communication, or evidence derived therefrom, knowing or having reason to know, that the information was obtained through the interception of a wire, electronic or oral communication. caveats: yes, this is still in the “alleged” phase query whether remotely grabbing images off of a webcam is an interception of an electronic communication i hope the perpetrator gets thrown in jail for a bit, and upon release is subjected to the “sex offender special” for continuing persecution in his life. dum dum dum dum duuum. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/70 "2010-02-18T22:18:42Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I used to have one trained on my ferret cage at home, but shut it down because I never really had time to watch it when away from home (and when I did, they were always sleeping). As no one else (usually) used that computer, there was no real chance of using it to spy on the activities of anyone who had less than 4 legs. The technology is essentially the same as used in baby-cams or nanny-cams. My guess is that the laptop cam is in a fixed position, so unless s/he was stripping/masturbating for someone on webcam, I’m curious what the offense could be. My bedroom in high school [other than the year I spent in a french boarding school] was laid out with my desk parallel to my bed, the only free floor space for dressing or dancing maniacally while naked was in front of the desk, so if there had been personal computers with webcams, the only place I could get my freaky naked dance on would be in front of the computer … it was in a fairly standard bedroom size, about 11 feet by 11 feet [maybe 12 feet?] so I would not be surprised if most people who set up a laptop on their desks at home were pretty much in view of a webcam almost all the time… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/71 "2010-02-18T22:22:59Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Suppose that one of those webcams caught an underaged student in a suggestive pose. Given the strict liability imposed for possession of child pornography, does that mean that the principal, the superintendent and the board of the school district are now liable to being treated as sex offenders? I don’t understand how any of them could have thought it was a good idea. They’d probably bust whatever kid dared to pose provocatively for owning kiddie pron (of his/herself). What a bunch of maroons. Teachers won’t even be in a classroom with a student with the door closed anymore, and they think letting them peek in their bedrooms is going to fly? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/72 "2010-02-18T22:36:26Z")
> [@](#): > > How could they even hope to monitor that many students outside of school hours; or, to put it another way, how much money did they blow on paying the people who did the spying? Whatever they’ve paid so far, I’m sure it’s nothing compared to what they’re going to be paying. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/73 "2010-02-18T22:37:17Z")
The complaint alleges that when the assistant principal informed the family of the supposed improper behavior, she cited a photograph on the laptop. Conceivably, that is consistent with the boy taking a naked picture of himself and saving it on the laptop, and that picture being discovered during some sort of remote maintenance from the school’s server. Note that while the complaint alleges that the mother was told that the school had the capability to turn the webcam on and use it, it does not allege any facts supporting its contention that the school actually used that capability to take the picture at issue. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/74 "2010-02-18T23:05:23Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The school district [website](http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?m=0&t=today&p=lmsd_anno&id=1137) published a statement about this, in which they said that they’ve disabled the security feature to track stolen and missing laptops. They’ve since updated this statement. Among other things, it says “Upon a report of a suspected lost, stolen or missing laptop, the feature was activated by the District’s security and technology departments. The tracking-security feature was limited to taking a still image of the operator and the operator’s screen. This feature has only been used for the limited purpose of locating a lost, stolen or missing laptop. The District has not used the tracking feature or web cam for any other purpose or in any other manner whatsoever.” That of course doesn’t agree with the alleged privacy violation. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/75 "2010-02-18T23:08:17Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Yes, but any statement of defense (i.e. “answer”) filed should respond to whatever allegations are claimed in the complaint. Whether the allegations are flatly denied; or of the “admit X but not Y or Z” variety, or of the “admit X but submit that the purpose of X was Y, not Z as claimed,” or other variations on those themes, is what’s going to be interesting. Yes, which is exactly what I’m waiting for. Although the most recent facts that have come to light are interesting. It still seems to me that a lot of people are jumping to assumptions and conclusions that have yet to be determined factually. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/76 "2010-02-18T23:32:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Warning - wild ass guesses ahead: > > There is a security feature that allows one to log into a laptop if it was stolen. I recall that this was used in Vancouver last year, and caught a nice picture of someone using a stolen laptop (turns out he bought it innocently enough, and was horrified to see his mug splashed on the nightly news!) > > So… Feature is on the kids’ laptops. A bonehead in one school thinks it might be useful… He suspects that little johnny is skipping class and faking notes from “mom”. He tunes in to Johnny’s laptop and sees him running around the house like in “Risky Business”. Little Johnny gets suspended. Parent’s ask “how did you know he was not sick in bed?” Bonehead administrator says “HaHa!!! We have him playing air guitar and eating pizza on video!! Ha ha! He’s busted!” > > Shit then hits fan. Could be, but it still doesn’t excuse the invasion of privacy, although if this scenario were true, it would at least add a layer of comedy to what is an otherwise egregious infraction by a dumbass school administrator(s). ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/77 "2010-02-19T00:32:37Z")
I’d like the details on these remotely-activated webcams. Are they talking about enabling remote management of the school laptop by default? Would they have configured the laptop with the school as administrator account and the student with a mere user account? Or did they install something that would in other contexts be spyware on the machines? Or is this a hidden capability at the system level? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/78 "2010-02-19T00:52:01Z")
The school’s public statement of defense is hampered pretty severely by the student’s privacy rights. What if the student reported the laptop stolen (hoping to get a replacement or to get out of an assignment or something), and so the security feature were activated, revealing that the student was using it? That would be consistent with all the facts that we know and with the school’s very vague statement. I’m not saying that’s what happened–just saying we don’t have all the facts. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/79 "2010-02-19T02:09:07Z")
Wow, IAAL, a Complaint is mere speculation and allegation. Sounds like a big deal, but wait for an Answer or evidence before freaking the fuck out. Not legal advice, but a petition or complaint can pretty much claim anything. Check out a pro se prisoner complaint sometime to get an idea. There may be a basis for outrage LATER. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/80 "2010-02-19T02:15:34Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > It makes no difference what the inappropriate behavior was; no school has any right at all to remotely activate a web cam and spy on students at home. The entire administration of that school should lose their licenses and be fired out of hand. So what you’re saying is that dozens of people should lose their jobs (and probably careers), when (A) We don’t know which one(s) of them did anything wrong (B) We don’t even know specifically what was done, and (C) Nothing has been proven yet; it’s only an allegation [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=5)