# Hol-eeee Crap!! School Suspends Student...After Spying on Him **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510 "2010-02-18T19:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/81 "2010-02-19T02:22:24Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’d like the details on these remotely-activated webcams. Are they talking about enabling remote management of the school laptop by default? Would they have configured the laptop with the school as administrator account and the student with a mere user account? Or did they install something that would in other contexts be spyware on the machines? Or is this a hidden capability at the system level? I don’t know how a Mac would do it, but it wouldn’t be hard on a PC to setup a videoconferencing software (say, Polycom PVX) that is configured to register with an externally-accessible MCU or Gatekeeper. Basically, any time the system was connected to the Internet you’d have a videophone waiting for a call. Set it to auto-answer and you’d be set. Not great for sneakily spying on someone, since you’d have things like the software making a ringing sound and the like, but the possibility is there. That’s a non-Orwellian way that this could have happened, with some dickhead principal checking in on a kid who had called in sick to school that day. Of course, there are other slightly more sinister ways to have done it, even without having some sort of specific malware installed. Put something like LogMeIn on all of your district PCs. Want to know what’s going on there? Fire it up and see. Want to see what’s going on in front of the camera? Fire up whatever webcam (let me guess - iCam or something) and see what there is to see. Assuming the complaint is accurate, there are all sorts of possibilities as to what could have been on that computer that is legit or semi-legit. An administrator abusing it would be the most likely cause for all of this. One who is so stupid as to use whatever is found in such a way is just fucking retarded. “I saw what you did in the locker room young lady! What do you mean, how did I know? I saw it on the surveillance camera. And since I used it to bust you, you can’t complain!” -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/82 "2010-02-19T02:36:33Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > I don’t know how a Mac would do it, but it wouldn’t be hard on a PC to setup a videoconferencing software (say, Polycom PVX) that is configured to register with an externally-accessible MCU or Gatekeeper. Basically, any time the system was connected to the Internet you’d have a videophone waiting for a call. I don’t know Mac’s either but lots of PCs come with default ‘remote assistance’ software built in. That can access the webcam, apparently without permission. There’s an example of it in [this story](http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Dell-Tech-Webcam-Woman-Texas,news-5649.html). I could see a school having anti-theft / remote assistance software installed on the machine. In fact I guess they were using [this software](http://www.gadgettrak.com/products/mac/). I can’t imagine the stupidity that leads to both abusing the software and then acting on information you gained from there. It just doesn’t seem plausible … It’s possible they thought the laptop was stolen, activated the software, caught the kid doing something bad / illegal and decided to act. Possible. But the line of thinking above where the picture was taken by the kid himself and the principal was merely boasting about the capabilities of the software. I.e. it was never actually used. Seems more likely. And since when did kids get school sponsored laptops? Is this common? Gah, I feel old now. SD is glad his laptop has a bright-ass blue LED that lights when the cam is on. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/83 "2010-02-19T02:38:26Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > This sounds insane, but I’d like to wait and see more evidence that it actually occurred the way the complaint alleges it did. I can easily imagine it eventually coming out that the picture, whatever it was, was actually obtained by other means (e.g., the student taking it himself and showing it to friends who then proceeded to share it in turn, getting out of hand). That should be easy to find out. Look at where the video or jpg files are. Are they in emails or on myface (whatever) created by the students, or are they on the hard drive of some school admin guy. People tend to forget that even if you delete a file there are ways to recover it. While you’re in there, look at the video software and see which computer on this “extended server network” is operating it. There will be drivers somewhere in the system. Find the drivers and the main program, and you got the “culprit”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/84 "2010-02-19T03:25:52Z")
> [@SpaceDog](#): > > is glad his laptop has a bright-ass blue LED that lights when the cam is on. The MacBooks also have an LED (green) that lights up when the cam is on, but it’s a little more inconspicuous, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/85 "2010-02-19T03:43:52Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > They’d probably bust whatever kid dared to pose provocatively for owning kiddie pron (of his/herself). Yip, and commend the school for finding them since they can claim they were only doing it for law enforcement purposes. It’s just like how a cop can takes someone’s drug stash and be guilty of possession. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/86 "2010-02-19T03:48:50Z")
A slippery slope this is. Consult with the Jedi I must. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/87 "2010-02-19T03:50:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yip, and commend the school for finding them since they can claim they were only doing it for law enforcement purposes. It’s just like how a cop can takes someone’s drug stash and be guilty of possession. But, don’t the police have to get a warrant, in order to “violate privacy”? I’m thinking the restrictions on phone taps etc would or should also apply to video surveillance of someone’s private residence. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/88 "2010-02-19T04:06:23Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I hope the administrators involved will be prohibited from even looking at a school for the rest of their lives. That’s a small part of what these idiots are staring down the barrel of, given that giving out laptops to high-school students and remote-activating the webcams is pretty much guaranteed to give you at least one image that meets even a reasonable definition (to say nothing of the definitions the law actually uses) of child pornography… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/89 "2010-02-19T04:13:12Z")
> [@SpaceDog](#): > > is glad his laptop has a bright-ass blue LED that lights when the cam is on. I find myself glad that when purchasing a new computer, I decided against getting one with a camera at all. If I ever get one, I’ll make sure it’s covered while not supposed to be in use even if it means duct taping a patch over it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/90 "2010-02-19T04:37:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I find myself glad that when purchasing a new computer, I decided against getting one with a camera at all. If I ever get one, I’ll make sure it’s covered while not supposed to be in use even if it means duct taping a patch over it. Why bother to cover it up? Just unplug it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/91 "2010-02-19T04:47:37Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Why bother to cover it up? Just unplug it. Can’t do that if it’s built into the monitor, as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/92 "2010-02-19T04:55:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Can’t do that if it’s built into the monitor, as far as I know. Ahhh, got it. Black electrical tape works quite well, and is easy to remove when you want to. Just make a small fold in one end, so you have a “handle” to grab onto. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/93 "2010-02-19T05:12:24Z")
One other thing: The OP states that the student was suspended, but the complaint nowhere alleges this or any other discipline. The suit is only about the alleged surveillance. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/94 "2010-02-19T05:22:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The MacBooks **also have an LED (green) that lights up when the cam is on**, but it’s a little more inconspicuous, I guess. (Bolding mine.) [Digg Post](http://digg.com/gadgets/School_used_student_laptop_webcams_to_spy_on_them): > [@](#): > > “As a recent graduate of Harriton, I thought I could shed some light on the situation. These laptops were 2.0ghz 2gb Macbooks issued out to all the students for the entire year to do whatever they wanted and this was the 2nd year of the program. **The webcam couldn’t be disabled due through tough tough security settings. Occasionally we would notice that the green light was on from time to time but we just figured that it was glitching out as some macbooks do sometimes**. Some few covered it up with tape and post its because they thought the IT guys were watching them. I always thought they were crazy and that the district, one of the more respectable ones within the state, would never pull some shit like this. I guess I was wrong. I am a little surprised because nobody in the past had be disciplined for doing anything inappropriate during school or outside of school. The only thing coming close was a kid performing a simple hack to make another account in order to install games. This specific incident was traced through the network by the IT dept. While I still think there might be a chance the vice principal/ disciplinarian doesn’t have these specific images as she is quite the type to make a bluff like that, it sounds to me like this is legit. If they have been watching all of us and looking at our logs and looking at what we type, I can assure you that they have seen lots and lots and lots of dirty things.” (Bolding mine.) As others in this thread have already stated, just put some tape on the camera. But why? Yeah, kids are tech savvy but if you have no fear with a builtin webcam – and no direct evidence the camera might be a spycam – why would the thought to cover up the camera ever enter your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/95 "2010-02-19T05:40:45Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Can you give ‘informed’ consent if you weren’t informed. > > This talk of ‘fine print’ authorization would never hold up in court. Would it? > > Maybe a lawyer could elaborate on _this_ point (not the bigger issue in this thread), please. If the information was given in a document that is clearly intended to be a legally binding contract, then by signing it you are stating you have been informed of everything in the document, even if you didn’t actually read it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/96 "2010-02-19T05:46:10Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Ahhh, got it. Black electrical tape works quite well, and is easy to remove when you want to. Just make a small fold in one end, so you have a “handle” to grab onto. That’ll be the only handle he grasps onto in this particular segment of this argument… ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/97 "2010-02-19T06:10:20Z")
It is interesting that the complaint mentions an Assistant principal, and the school board disclaimers mention the head of the IT department as the only person notified of “stolen” laptops web cameras, or activating same. When the stories are not the same, it seems that someone is telling a lie. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/98 "2010-02-19T08:11:11Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > It is interesting that the complaint mentions an Assistant principal, and the school board disclaimers mention the head of the IT department as the only person notified of “stolen” laptops web cameras, or activating same. > > When the stories are not the same, it seems that someone is telling a lie. Not necessarily. All the complaint says is that the assistant principal confronted the student about the inappropriate picture. So it’s possible that the head of the IT department activated the webcam, saw the inappropriate activity, and then brought it to the assistant principal’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![dragoncat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@dragoncat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragoncat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/99 "2010-02-19T08:18:26Z")
Yeah, I was a little surprised the class of defendants did not include more people. Lawyers, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it wise to name as many individuals as possible specifically so no one can blame someone else? ---
**Author:** ![dragoncat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@dragoncat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragoncat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/100 "2010-02-19T08:20:59Z")
Also, did anyone else notice that the LMSD logo on your browser tab (at least on mine) looks like a little purple hand giving you the finger? (e.g. [http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?t=today&p=lmsd\_anno](http://www.lmsd.org/sections/news/default.php?t=today&p=lmsd_anno)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=6)