# Hol-eeee Crap!! School Suspends Student...After Spying on Him **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510 "2010-02-18T19:42:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/101 "2010-02-19T08:56:09Z")
I am wondering if the inappropriate behaviour was a case of one student stealing another students laptop ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/102 "2010-02-19T11:55:45Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > It is interesting that the complaint mentions an Assistant principal, and the school board disclaimers mention the head of the IT department as the only person notified of “stolen” laptops web cameras, or activating same. > > When the stories are not the same, it seems that someone is telling a lie. > > Tris Including possibly the boy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/103 "2010-02-19T13:07:08Z")
I am reminded of [this story](http://abcnews.go.com/WN/indiana-school-sued-student-athletes-suspended-sexy-pics/story?id=8975121), in which the school suspended two students for taking sexy pics of themselves and posting them on a “private” (in the sense that anything on the Internet is private) website, despite the pictures having nothing whatsoever to do with the school. > [@](#): > > An unknown person was able to access the pictures, copy them and hand them over to school personnel. They were eventually given to Couch, who suspended both T.V. and M.K. from all extra-curricular activities for the school year, including athletics, which both of the girls participated in. > > The lawsuit claims that both teens’ parents spoke with the principal and were told that he could cut down the punishment to suspend them from just 25 percent of the girls’ activities only if they went to three counseling sessions and individually apologize to the school’s athletic board, which is comprised of the school’s varsity head coaches. While I think the girls were criminally stupid, it’s none of the school’s damn business what they do in their free time. (Note: I’m really hoping that the phrase “lollipop-shaped phallus” in that link is supposed to read “phallus-shaped lollipop”, or I’m officially skeeved out.) ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/104 "2010-02-19T13:37:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The school’s public statement of defense is hampered pretty severely by the student’s privacy rights. What if the student reported the laptop stolen (hoping to get a replacement or to get out of an assignment or something), and so the security feature were activated, revealing that the student was using it? That would be consistent with all the facts that we know and with the school’s very vague statement. That actually makes a whole lot of sense, and I don’t think I’d blame the school if this is what actually happened. But we don’t know yet. > [@Gyrate](#): > > While I think the girls were criminally stupid, it’s none of the school’s damn business what they do in their free time. Stupid, probably, but I don’t see what’s criminal about it. > [@](#): > > (Note: I’m really hoping that the phrase “lollipop-shaped phallus” in that link is supposed to read “phallus-shaped lollipop”, or I’m officially skeeved out.) Yes, especially since it’s a large, **multi-coloured novelty** lollipop-shaped phallus. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/105 "2010-02-19T14:04:38Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Stupid, probably, but I don’t see what’s criminal about it. Just being hyperbolic, although the message that you shouldn’t post anything on the Internet you wouldn’t want put on a billboard next to the interstate cannot be reiterated often enough. Once it’s there, it’s there forever and anyone can see it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/106 "2010-02-19T14:22:03Z")
Z > [@Gyrate](#): > > I am reminded of [this story](http://abcnews.go.com/WN/indiana-school-sued-student-athletes-suspended-sexy-pics/story?id=8975121), in which the school suspended two students for taking sexy pics of themselves and posting them on a “private” (in the sense that anything on the Internet is private) website, despite the pictures having nothing whatsoever to do with the school. > While I think the girls were criminally stupid, it’s none of the school’s damn business what they do in their free time. In this case, though, it’s a school laptop that’s at issue. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/107 "2010-02-19T14:40:20Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > It is interesting that the complaint mentions an Assistant principal, and the school board disclaimers mention the head of the IT department as the only person notified of “stolen” laptops web cameras, or activating same. > > When the stories are not the same, it seems that someone is telling a lie. > > Tris Not necessarily. It’s important to remember that this is just the very earliest stages of the lawsuit, and thus the investigation, by both the plaintiff and the defendant. That’s why there is always extensive pre-trial discovery, both of documents and representatives from both parties, to try and determine the accuracy of the complaint. It may be a misunderstanding of some sort, or it may be that the school authorities have just started to investigate thoroughly, doing an internal investigation, but felt that it was necessary to put some sort of general statement out to respond to the media. The plaintiffs appear to have dealt with an Assistant Principal, as the administrative representative to deal with students and parents, but the school division may be speaking from the perspective of their internal organization, in which only IT people get the reports of stolen laptops, etc. It’s way to early to conclude exactly what happened here, based solely on a statement of claim and media releases. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/108 "2010-02-19T14:51:29Z")
Do we know it’s not a case of; we’re giving you laptops with the understanding that they are to be used for schoolwork and not to be used for any nefarious purposes, we reserve the right to check (remotely) in class, that you’re not playing games, etc, and to occasionally check the content of the laptop (remotely) to check you have not engaged in nefarious acts, ie downloaded porn? I can see how the above arrangement could be twisted into the OP by a parent wanting to defend their kid. Especially a rich helicopter parent with an expensive lawyer. Is it possible they are suggesting home schooling as they know when this plays out, a kiddie porn revelation is going to ruin this child’s high school experience and perhaps put him in real danger? I’m not trying to defend anyone but the OP just seems so outrageous as to be implausible. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/109 "2010-02-19T14:54:36Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If the information was given in a document that is clearly intended to be a legally binding contract, then by signing it you are stating you have been informed of everything in the document, even if you didn’t actually read it. On the other hand, the fact that you signed it does not necessarily mean you waived every right that the document says you do. In any case, a waiver is not proof against a suit; it’s just a handy defense. Assuming the facts are as stated and a jury trial occurs (highly unlikely, IMHO) the parental consent form will barely be an issue. > [@dragoncat](#): > > Yeah, I was a little surprised the class of defendants did not include more people. Lawyers, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it wise to name as many individuals as possible specifically so no one can blame someone else? IANAL. However, presumably the school board refused to divulge the names of its IT staff. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/110 "2010-02-19T17:34:20Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Do we know it’s not a case of; we’re giving you laptops with the understanding that they are to be used for schoolwork and not to be used for any nefarious purposes, we reserve the right to check (remotely) in class, that you’re not playing games, etc, and to occasionally check the content of the laptop (remotely) to check you have not engaged in nefarious acts, ie downloaded porn? Scanning the disk remotely wouldn’t be much of an issue, since you’d probably want to run virus scans anyway (though, this being a Mac, it would be less important.) However, unless you request that the student put a mirror up to the laptop, I don’t quite get how turning on the webcam does anything to ensure that the laptop is used for school purposes. > [@](#): > > I can see how the above arrangement could be twisted into the OP by a parent wanting to defend their kid. Especially a rich helicopter parent with an expensive lawyer. One is not a helicopter parent when one is called into the Asst. Principals office. I don’t know if this nonsense comes from you hating parents or wealthy people. We also don’t know that this family is rich - we are pretty sure they aren’t poor. A friend of mine from college came from this area - upper Middle class, not rich. > [@](#): > > I’m not trying to defend anyone but the OP just seems so outrageous as to be implausible. Well, the only response from the district is that the cameras are only used for security purposes. If the laptop had been reported stolen, they could have said so without violating anyone’s privacy, so that doesn’t seem plausible. I wonder how many kids this idiot peeked in at before finding someone doing something wrong, and I wonder who could be stupid enough to brag about spying. Still, when I was on Site Council at my kid’s high school, our new principal might have done just this. My guess is that the district is stonewalling at advice of their lawyers while they prepare to throw this moron under the bus. I’m betting that they are stating their policy correctly, but not how it was implemented. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/111 "2010-02-19T17:35:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > On the other hand, the fact that you signed it does not necessarily mean you waived every right that the document says you do. In any case, a waiver is not proof against a suit; it’s just a handy defense. > > Assuming the facts are as stated and a jury trial occurs (highly unlikely, IMHO) the parental consent form will barely be an issue. The Register article on this today claims that there was nothing in the fine print permitting snooping, but they might be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/112 "2010-02-19T18:16:00Z")
Presumably they’re just quoting the complaint, which says the same thing. I’d wait to read the defendants’ response. Even if the waiver _did_ permit snooping, it’d probably be worded in a vague enough manner that the plaintiffs could plausibly claim it didn’t permit it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/113 "2010-02-19T18:44:24Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > I suspect they had some sort of trigger built in so that someone was notified and the camera activated if the student surfed to an unapproved website. Surely this hypothetical stratagem would appear purpose-built to collect images of masturbating teenagers. I will eat my own head with mayonaisse if this turns out to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/114 "2010-02-19T19:07:02Z")
—oops! wrong thread! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/115 "2010-02-19T19:21:14Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Do we know it’s not a case of; we’re giving you laptops with the understanding that they are to be used for schoolwork and not to be used for any nefarious purposes, we reserve the right to check (remotely) in class, that you’re not playing games, etc, and to occasionally check the content of the laptop (remotely) to check you have not engaged in nefarious acts, ie downloaded porn? It’s possible that the school checks the laptop from time to time _at school_, for updating and cleanup. If the boy had saved a file marked “pen!s.jpg” on his desktop, it could have been spotted them. Given how common sexting is, I find this more plausible than a school official remotely spying on kids, but of course I may be wrong. Again, there should be server files that can say conclusively whether any remote access took place that night. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/116 "2010-02-19T19:55:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Just being hyperbolic, although the message that you shouldn’t post anything on the Internet you wouldn’t want put on a billboard next to the interstate cannot be reiterated often enough. Once it’s there, it’s there forever and anyone can see it. Ah, I see. I wasn’t sure if you meant “criminally stupid” as extremely stupid, or as both stupid and criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/117 "2010-02-19T20:01:06Z")
Ok here is my wild-assed guess as to what happened. Kid stays home from school for some reason that is not legit. Like he said he had to go visit a dying aunt or something. IT guy then notices activity on the laptop, checks it out and sees the kid in his room playing WoW and snaps a picture of it with a time stamp. Kid busted! > [@](#): > > Asst. Principal: Your son played hooky from school. > Parent: Billy, is this true? > Billy: Well, I.., umm > AP: It doesn’t matter what he says, we have a picture of him at home that very day. > Parent: Excuse me? > AP: Right here clear as day (hands picture to mother) > Parent: How’d you get this? > AP: Your sons laptop. > Parent: What do you mean my son’s laptop. > AP: I’m sorry I meant the laptop we gave to your son. > Parent: I understand that, but how did you get this picture. > AP: Oh each computer has a webcam. > Billy: You took this picture. > Billy: No, Ma, I… > AP: Oh no, our IT department got the picture. > Parent: Your IT department? > AP: Yes, they took the picture by activating the camera from here at school. > Parent: I’m sorry they did the what to the where now? > AP: Took the picture remotely, on the computer we gave your son. > Parent: So let me get this straight. My son at home, using this computer has his picture taken by you, secretly, on a camera you gave us. > AP: Well I didn’t actualy take the picture, but you are missing the… > Parent: HOLY SHIT!!! ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/118 "2010-02-19T21:09:07Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:80, topic:529510”] So what you’re saying is that dozens of people should lose their jobs (and probably careers), when (A) We don’t know which one(s) of them did anything wrong (B) We don’t even know specifically what was done, and (C) Nothing has been proven yet; it’s only an allegation [/QUOTE] Yeah, cooler heads have prevailed and I was on the point of posting to the effect that my temper has, once again, gotten the better of me. (Believe that or not, just as you choose)I will point out that there were a few people who posted in agreement with me; will you be similarly questioning them? However, IF the device in question constitutes outright spy ware just to randomly check up on students, or if there was some hope the student being checked up on would be engaging in some sort of lewd and lascivious behavior, what I said stands. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/119 "2010-02-19T21:10:05Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > (Bolding mine.) > > [Digg Post](http://digg.com/gadgets/School_used_student_laptop_webcams_to_spy_on_them): > > (Bolding mine.) > > As others in this thread have already stated, just put some tape on the camera. But why? Yeah, kids are tech savvy but if you have no fear with a builtin webcam – and no direct evidence the camera might be a spycam – why would the thought to cover up the camera ever enter your mind? And if they were really smart they’d not cover it up so they can be part of the class action lawsuit that will cover the cost of college tuition for each student involved. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510/120 "2010-02-20T00:42:10Z")
Something \*vaugly \*similar happened to one of my classmates senior year. It was the week before the last the year. We’d just gotten back from our senior trip and he decided to take some naked pictures of himself to sent to a girl he met down in Florida (he was 18 and did have a nice body). He didn’t have a digital camera, but was on the school paper. You can see where this is going. He had another friend (a football teammate) take pictures of him naked in the lockerroom with the school’s camera. :smack: He was fully naked, had his dick in hand for some, and finished the set fully erect. He forgot to delete the pics from the camera after he uploaded them. :o Mrs Journalism Adviser was in for _quite_ a shock when she went to use the camera. No laws were actually broken, but he probally could have been expelled. However since he was graduating in a few days, a football player, and had joined the Army (our principal loved football & was very patriotic) he was just suspended the rest of the year (but allowed to take his final exams) and they let him graduate on stage. Oh, and he was kicked of the school paper. Also a few dayswhile running some last minute yearbook errands I managed to walk in on said journalism teacher showing those pictures to 2 other teachers (all middle-aged women) on her computer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hol-eeee-crap-school-suspends-student-after-spying-on-him/529510.md?page=7)